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What i learned from dating older gay men
The director of Call Your Father says his attraction to older guys exposed a rarely discussed universal truth about gay men.
I never would have gotten to follow Laura Dern around a garden tour of Los Angeles’s Venice neighborhood if I hadn’t dated older men. So for that, I am thankful.
I didn’t say “hi” to her, but now I think I would have. I was 21 and vaguely dating a 50-year-old guy I had met through friends. We hooked up for the first time at a huge house party I had that was filled with other early- to mid-20s people. I lived in a cement basement that, for some reason, I had painted yellow. It truly was a bad-looking room, but we were both drunk, and I was too confident to know how insecure I was. So I was really charming that night.
He was into it. I’m not sure if I was into it. But he was handsome, and I knew from friends he was successful — at the time, anything above a yellow basement seemed really appealing. So we hooked up. It was drunk and fun. And someone walked in on us. I wondered how that must have felt to him. It seems so college to have someone walk in while you are hooking up during a party.
When I finally saw his house and his life, I could understand how getting caught sucking dick at a party with mostly Tecate being served would be appealing, or at least a change of pace. His life was set the fuck up. His ceilings must have been 30 feet high, and his parties had bartenders. When he invited me over the day of the garden tour, I think I not so subtly asked him what his parents did, because I couldn’t believe someone could have this home without family money. I still don’t understand how people make that kind of money — but at 21, I really didn’t.
That day was very nice. He indulged me by following Laura Dern around instead of looking at the gardens, which was definitely not the first time she had been stalked by gay men at a garden party. Afterward, we had wine with some of his straight friends. They were cozy and nice to me, but there was obviously an air of “Why did my 50-year-old friend invite a 21-year-old to my home and expect me to treat him like a person?”
By the end of the day I had done something uncharacteristic for me at that time: I asked him about his life instead of talking about mine. What were the hardest years? When did he get real? When did he make money? Twenty years after becoming successful, what did it feel like now? I gathered my information, came, and then went home to my basement. We maybe hung out romantically once more after that, but then it faded in a natural way. I still see him around sometimes, and he’s lovely. This kind of thing happened a couple dozen more times in my early 20s.
When I started writing my short film Call Your Father, I wanted to not just write commentary on gay men, but I also wanted to figure out why I was consistently drawn to guys around that age. A huge theme in all my work is confidence. I think it’s something gay men don’t talk about enough. From the moment you realize as a gay man who you are, whether it’s a challenging process or not, you know (maybe subconsciously) that a lot of the world hates you. Some want you dead.
I wasn’t bullied that badly, and my parents were cool, but deep down I knew I was hated. I knew it was harder for me to get what I wanted, and a lot of that was self-inflicted. I didn’t think I deserved what I knew I wanted.
What I was doing in my early 20s, by dating older men, was showing myself that maybe there was hope. That someday I could make some money and be successful and create a life for myself, just like these older men. I didn’t really believe it, but being around it made me think that I’d be more likely to get it.
It didn’t help, I don’t think. I’m glad I did it, and I met some great men, but it didn’t really help me believe in myself. It wasn’t reassurance I needed. It was a genuine sense of confidence from the inside. And developing that is a slow process that I’m still working on. Most gay men never reach the end of this process, and many never start.
Both characters in Call Your Father struggle deeply with confidence — a struggle on one side manifesting itself in real mental health issues and on the other manifesting in a lack of connection to the world and himself.
The gay confidence issue is both sad and interesting to me. I think it’s what makes gay men so beautiful but also troubling. I guess if we were completely self-assured, we would just be straight men who had sex with men. A wavering confidence is part of our culture, and of course, I’d like to keep working on mine. But maybe there is a stopping point. I never want to be so confident that I am making Planet of the Apes movies. Unless they are starring Laura Dern. I think I could do well with that.
JORDAN FIRSTMAN is the director of Call Your Father, a short film about an intergenerational gay date. He is also a staff writer on TBS’s Search Party. Watch the short below.
Opinion | we need older gay men to be visible
I’m a 65 single gay male. I do not have a six pack. In the western culture I’m past my sell by date in looks and body size. But in the middle eastern culture, I have never been more desirable.
No! You are not past your sell-by-date. Far from it! You are ok as you are!
I absolutely agree with this. Being in my mid forties I find that going out and visiting various gay establishments I get looked upon as what are you doing here. Being shamed by younger men for your age is very common, you get guys will blatantly say no older than a certain age. I however roamed the party scene with older guys that showed me the ropes and made me aware of my surroundings. We as older gay men need to step up and step forward so the younger generation can have mentors and go to gays if they in need. Let’s unite as a gay unit of gay people and not a segregated group of gays by age, class or affirmation
Ek is 74, gay, getroud met 48 jarige man. Apteker en polisieman. Ek werk nog somtyds en word ten volle in gemeenskap aanvaar
I’m 58 years young, I live in McDonough Georgia and I enjoyed reading your article on Older Gay men, I’m available for conversation if you are still looking to hear from individuals in my demographic
This is an intriguing angle to the whole gay and age conversation. Nice job!
Well we are here, however due to the misconception that the society and heterosexuals have about gay men in the past. When we age we want to keep want to keep our dignity, going out doesn’t matter anymore. Oh yes energy levels also do drop we no longer party like young homosexuals.
Also bear in mind of how humans also age this days, a lot of gays go to gym. You sometimes can’t tell their age until they say it. Just like heterosexuals after 35 there are certain cycles that human beings strive for or live within. Those circle are mostly in doors, trips, advances or business related. Well if you are lucky to have a child you also start thinking for your child more than you, you don’t want your child to bullied at school saying “we’ve seen your dad’s drunk or in an underwear in a circle of young people” the psychological effects of that will have a negative impact.
When you grow old your priorities also change and shift. At that age you probably have done most if not all the things you wanted to. It’s nesting time, building a legacy, taking kids to school and more. Certain age groups will know each other, it’s like getting a Facebook friend from someone totally younger than you, you ask yourself so many questions and probably won’t even accept them.
When the stage is fulfilled you move to the next stage. There only thing we must do at this point is to document it so that there younger generation can take tips or learn from. That’s the step we need to be brave to tackle.
I have not been on this site for years, and I was just scrolling through to try and find out what is happening in the Community during lock;down and if anyone is going as insane as I am? Back to the Opinion – Dear Motlatsi Motseoile, Brilliant, thank you for this as it was a fresh change from all the World News Videos I have been watching – Gobsmacked! Yes, all the comments are true, each one nailed it. I had a Godfather who was also Gay, and I thank him to this day for being part of my life – I was lucky, but if I look at some of stuff that still happens to the Gay Youth, especially in South Africa, I would definitely say there needs to be more visible Older Presence. Besides, somebody needs to train these Little Princesses on how to become a Proper Queen!XOMorgi Porgi Asexual Queer
I’m a 58 year old, gay man, married and have 2 adult children. We have a very active social life but this is mostly with heterosexual friends. It seems the younger gay generation is too busy with and into themselves, to note that the world consists of many folk which make up our LGBTQI “rainbow nation”, and often push older gay men aside (consciously and unconsciously?). They seem to forget that one day they will wake up and be 30-something or 40-something and will then see what it’s like to be treated with disdain (as has been expressed by others and we’ve also experienced to some extent) by the younger ones??
I have been fortunate in that we do have a number of younger gay guys that relate to me “as their gay dad” either because their biological father has not been there for them as gay men, or because our relationship has evolved into one where I offer that “insight/forewarning/guidance/direction” they often seek when confronted with issues they are uncertain in how to handle. The fact that I have a son and a daughter has been invaluable in my approach to these situations and I love the endearing relationships we share. And then there are a few that just are “into older men” – which also has it’s place in our society, but has to be approached differently.
There’s a place for all of us under the sun, but I do agree that the media has been instrumental in only focusing on one group to the detriment of others. Maybe it’s time I wrote a column somewhere – “Lets ask dad…” where people can write in and ask questions which I then answer?? And the media, can also expand their reporting by profiling the “older generation” with articles of successful older gay men including things such as fashion tips for the older man or looking for the “older angle” in whatever they are reporting on? Hey it seems I might have a new career looming
So bear-magazine.com this little article. I definitely agree with how much more mature gay men aren’t really visible. I’m 32 and agree with how the teens to early to late 20’s are more agreeable in our gay community specially here in Cape Town. I think there is a great majority of older gay men whom just find different circles or different forms of entertainment as they mature. Which I think is proper as the young club scene does consist of young boys and their youthful forms of outlets and expressions in these hip environments which no longer appeals to the mature gay whom has live through that right of passage. In a sense a outlet again for going through the process of finding out your different from all the other “normal kids”.. I think it’s said and true how straight teens & young adults do have the guidance from their other straight counterparts, where as gay boys need to figure all of that out for themselves. It’s basically one of my biggest frustration at this stage of my life because most are not doing so good at growing up and maturing, asking questions and reading up on things they don’t understand about their sexuality. And that’s where we lose the numbers in order to have that visual aspect of seeing gay men whom have figured it out and to be able to interact and grow from a understanding point that speaks directly to who you are as a gay man.
hey such articles help us to come out , please share more articles
I find that I prefer to keep to myself most of the time. I am 47, I love my grey beard, it’s my badge of honour. I wear it with pride because not many of us get to show the world we have made it this far. Its a privilege getting old. Do you realise that there isn’t much going for gay men who are older, so there is hardly any reason why we should all of a sudden go out drinking or clubbing? Give me a private sex party any bear-magazine.com
WHAT DO YOUNGER GAY PERSONS THINK WILL HAPPEN TO THEM WHEN THEY BECOME “OLDER” – WHATEVER THAT MIGHT MEAN – (IS THAT ANYTHING BETWEEN 30 AND 90 YEARS OF AGE?) WILL THEY SUDDENLY LOOSE THEIR IDENTIFYING SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND WHATEVER NEEDS OR DESIRES WHICH COME WITH IT? NO, NOT AT ALL. WE ARE WHO AND WHAT WE ARE FOR AS LONG AS WE ARE AROUND. IN PAST YEARS, I NEVER THOUGHT THAT THERE ARE AS MANY OLDER GAY PERSONS AS I HAVE DISCOVERED THERE ARE IN RECENT YEARS. AND WHY ARE THEY NOT “AS OUT ” AS POSSIBLY COULD BE THE CASE? WELL, THAT SEEMS TO BE A RESULT OF NOT BEING AS MUCH “IN DEMAND” AS WHEN THEY WERE YOUNG STILL. ALSO MANY OLDER PERSONS HAVE FOUND A LIFE-LONG PARTNER AND THUS KEEP TO THEMSELVES. AND, OF COURSE, BEING OLDER HAS CONSEQUENCES FOR MANY IN WHAT ONE STILL LIKES AND/OR CAN DO IN LIFE. UNFORTUNATELY, AGE OFTEN BRINGS LIMITATIONS IN TERMS OF HEALTH AND BODILY STRENGTH WHICH WE OFTEN HAVE NO CONTROL OR CHOICE ABOUT. HOWEVER, THAT DOES NOT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT MANY MAINLY SINGLE GAY PERSONS SUDDENLY NO LONGER EXIST OR THAT THEY HAVE LOST THEIR WISH TO BE ASSOCIATED WITH OTHERS AND TO EXPERIENCE THE JOY OF THE COMPANY OF OTHERS AND WHAT EVEN MAY COME WITH IT. THERE ARE SOME OF US AS OLDER PERSONS WHO LOVE THE COMPANY OF YOUNGER FRIENDS OR PARTNERS AND THEN, FORTUNATELY, THERE ARE ALSO THOSE YOUNGER GUYS WHO LIKE TO BE WITH OLDER PERSONS AND THAT IS NOT ALWAYS DUE TO NEGATIVE OR ABUSIVE TYPES OF bear-magazine.com MY OWN SITUATION, I AM A SO-CALLED “DISABLED” PERSON AND HAVE HAD A VISUAL IMPAIRMENT SINCE BIRTH – I AM NOT BLIND, BUT SEVERELY PARTIALLY SIGHTED. NOW AT MY PRESENT AGE OF GOING FOR 80 YEARS OF AGE, I ALSO HAVE AN ADDITIONAL PROBLEM DUE TO POOR LUNG FUNCTIONING. HOW OFTEN IN THE PAST HAVE I NOT SAT AT THE BEACH OR WHERE EVER ELSE AND LONGED TO MEET SOMEBODY WHO MIGHT BE LIKE-MINDED, BUT HAVE NOT MET SUCH A PERSON. I GUESS IT IS NOT WRITTEN ON OUR FACES WHAT OUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION IS. IT IS SOMETIMES EQUALLY NOT WRITTEN ALL OVER US THAT WE MIGHT HAVE SOME PHYSICAL DISABILITY – SUCH AS SUFFERING FROM A VISUAL OR HEARING IMPAIRMENT WHICH DOES NOT REQUIRE A WHEELCHAIR OR CRUTCHES OR EVEN TO USE A GUIDE DOG OR WHITE CANE. IN MY VIEW, AGE AND PHYSICAL OR MENTAL IMPAIRMENT ARE ISSUES WHICH NEED MUCH MORE ATTENTION IN ASSISTING MANY IN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY. WHETHER YOUNG OR OLDER, A PERSON IN THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY WITH AN IMPAIRMENT OF WHATEVER NATURE, STILL HAS THE EXACT SAME NEEDS AND DESIRES AS ANY OTHER MEMBER OF THIS COMMUNITY . I SUGGEST THAT THIS ISSUE OR, PERHAPS, THESE ISSUES NEED A LOT MORE ATTENTION THAN THEY EVER RECEIVED TO DATE. WE ARE FORTUNATELY MOVING OUT OF THE TIMES WHERE SEXUAL ORIENTATION HAD TO BE KEPT IN THE CLOSET OR BEHIND THICK WALLS AS IT WAS FOR MANY YEARS IN THE PAST.
Gay dating for older guys
Finding your loved one is a very specific and intimate process. While the society, in general, has lots of stigmas and sets multiple milestones for a person to achieve by a given age, at the end of the day, it is solely your choice when and end with whom to date. Ultimately, passion can be kindled at any age. So, if you are a gay man in your fifties or sixties, nothing prevents you from pursuing a younger partner. The same works in the opposite way. For some young gays, the feeling of security created by their older partner is paramount. Keeping all this in mind, we have collected the most relevant tips and hints for you to enjoy your partner to the fullest. The type of relationships you are seeking may vary. It can be commitment or one-night-stand, but the mutual respect between you and your gay partner should not be affected. To start the age gap relationship with a gay man, there plenty of apps and sites available. We picked the best ones for you to completely forget about your age and enjoy your gay life with the best match technologies and destiny are able to deliver working together.
I have an ultra-strong attraction to older men
I’m 18m (almost 19!), and I’ve been out of the closeted and active for nearly a year. I had exactly zero mentorship or anything like a gay community where I lived before I moved so I’m not always knowledgeable about certain things.
My question is why I have such a strong attraction to older men:
I have sexual attraction to several types, but when it comes to older men I get hit with it 100x as strong as anything else. I immediately become ultra submissive and eager to please in my mind. I get those „f-me“ feelings and I’ve done way, way more with older men than I have boys my own age.
I don’t know why they have a hold on me, but they do.
Does anyone else feel this way and if so, why is it that way for you do you think? I’m trying to understand myself a little bit on this one o.O
I have always liked older guys too. I’m getting older myself, and I still seem to go for at least 8-10 years older than me. For me it’s maturity, the intelligence that comes with experience, their physique, their attitude, their look, the understated dress, the silvery streaks, the five o clock shadow, the open minded attitude, and the live and let live motto older guys seem to live by more often than younger guys. Whenever I’m around guys my age or younger I just feel judged and compared, not appreciated for who I am. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter, what trips your trigger just trips it.
Be sure to read the rules there and be aware there guys from both ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between. No dating/hookup posts. (There is a sidebar list of dating sites, if that’s what you want.)
I preferred mature men because guys my age or younger weren’t interested in the same things. I have been with my husband for 4 1/2 years, we met when we were 28 and 40. We are very open (not sexually), we listen, and he has (unfortunately) handled my problems associated with my early 20’s. The older we get the more we understand our flaws. We are both from small towns and enjoy the same things so that probably helps. You may just be attracted to an older man because you believe he can offer you more – physically and mentally.
Meh, more common than you think, no matter what this sub tells you. We don´t decide who we´re attracted to. You just have fun, but be careful, don´t let them take advantage of you, use a condom every time, keep in mind that older men have more experience which sadly can also mean experience in lying. Be smart.
In my experience older guys are more up front, but you’re not wrong. You have to watch out for the jerks, not necessarily older or younger or otherwise.
My question is why I have such a strong attraction to older men
Hella daddy issues. Trust me, Im in the same boat. Grab a paddle!
That’s not at all unusual but you need to be cautious and try to choose guys who are going to leave you better than they found you.
thank you. a number of men have exploited me i know but i’ll try and do better going forward
For me, attraction to older men wasn’t even about sex. I was very attracted to young guys, but I just related to older men better than guys my own age (who seemed mostly flighty and unable to have an intelligent conversation).
I also had some serious daddy issues going on (my dad beat me ferociously). So any time I would meet an older dude that was „nice“ to me, I pretty much melted. I felt safe to be me. And being the little spoon (even though I’m 6’2″) was pretty much the best thing ever.
Same with me I think, but I mixed emotions and sex too much so they combine a lot o.o
Unfortunately, yes and it causes me to make bad choices
Also daddy issues frequently cause gay males to be attracted to daddy figures. Note I say frequently.
What it’s like to be an 82-year-old on grindr
If there’s one thing gay men recognize about their milieu, it’s the rather severe ageism that pervades it. Profiles on sex sites often set strict guidelines around age: No one over 40, no one over 30, some even say no one over 25. Not only is being gay expensive—a new leather jacket is required every year—but it’s also, apparently, a young man’s game.
Thus Montrealer Chris Wilson—out and proud since the early 70s—is definitely a trailblazer. At the age of 82, he remains active on the sex and singles‘ scene in La Belle Province, cruising sites like Grindr, Adam4Adam, and Squirt. Wilson sat down with VICE to chat about what it’s like to meet up online when you’re an octogenarian.
VICE: When did you first get into sex sites?Chris Wilson: About seven years ago. I think I got some spam, which interested me, and I went to a site called „Horny Matches.“ Everyone seemed to be really fake and never around. Then I saw an ad for Squirt. So I started Squirting! About five years ago I was visiting with a friend from Concordia, a hustler, who introduced me to Grindr. Very slowly I looked at it, and it took me a while to get acclimatized. There are various codes you have to pay attention to, and ways that people communicate things. For me it’s really important to have a sense of how distant people are, and Grindr does that. I’m happy to chat with people in Montreal, but to chat with people across the border, not so much, because there’s so much scrutiny of people crossing the US border these days, I wouldn’t want to end up on any watch lists. I don’t do any chats with people in Ottawa, because it’s too far and the city is too boring.
You weren’t daunted by the ageism on Grindr? It seems like it’s mainly younger people who use bear-magazine.com I first started on Grindr, there were a number of offensive gay men who would say, „What are you doing on this site?“ My response would be that I’m gay, that this is a gay site, and that gays come in all ages and sizes. I would say, „I’ve as much right to be here as you, and watch what you say because you’ll be my age soon.“ I don’t pick quarrels with users. Occasionally I see something offensive. If I see something about bestiality I will report it. Generally speaking, the people are more polite lately. I used to work for a volunteer help line, the Gay Line, in Montreal, and that gave me a handle as to how to deal with chatting online. I had chats with people on Grindr and ended up talking to them about how sad they were, and ended up counseling them out of suicidal talk.
Have you found romance on these sites, or is it mainly about sex?I wouldn’t say romances, because I’m past the stage of looking for that. I have a straight roommate, and we get along very well. But having a handsome straight roommate means I sometimes get horny and restless, and Grindr is good for that. I have four friends-with-benefits situations going on. One is from Sri Lanka—he’s a nurse and comes over to my place every now and then. It’s very relaxing. I met another friend from Lebanon.
Your sex life sounds like a bit of a UN bear-magazine.com, it does! I have traveled a lot and like men from all over the world.
Do you visit sites other than Grindr and Squirt?Adam4Adam and GayRomeo, too. The problem with GayRomeo is that I’m always being hit on from overseas. I get hit on by guys from India or Jamaica. I think when people see an older guy they think that they can get money out of me, or gain entry to Canada. My profile reads, „Fancy an octogenarian?“ Occasionally, someone will ask me what an octogenarian is, and that’s a good filter, so I don’t get together with someone stupid. I also write, „I’m not your daddy, but I could be your dirty old uncle.“ That works. It gives them the message that I’m not really into being a sugar daddy—I don’t want to support someone who would become my dependent. I get hit on by guys who have fond memories of being hit on by their dirty old uncles.
Is there anything too kinky that you’ve been asked to do?Sometimes I show pictures of my dogs. Once I was asked about bestiality. I report them right away.
Did you see the film Gerontophilia?Yes. I teared up a few times. I think it was very well done. I think it appeals to the boy still lurking in old men. It was also illuminating. There’s a lot of ageism in gay society, and I think it’s important people talk about it.
Do any of these sites offer a senior discount?No, not yet.
Do you take Viagra?I tried Viagra. I prefer Cialis, but it doesn’t kick in until the next day, so I have to plan ahead. These pills work, but for me they’re not necessary.
On your profile, included in your likes are „younger guys.“ I thought it was a good thing that you aren’t into older guys, as there can’t be many guys older than 82 on these sites. Do you bump into other men your age anywhere online?No. There are definite age groups on the sites. There are a number of guys in their 60s. Fortysomethings and 45s are very active. And then there are those in their 60s. I think it’s a big turnoff when someone says they’re lonely. Enjoy your solitude. There’s a difference. I’m never lonely.
You seem to spend a lot of time online—you’ve got your phone on now to Grindr. So how often do you hook up?About twice a month—that’s my batting average. I’m not really a top anymore. With a great deal of persuasion I could be, but mainly I like to give oral or bottom. There are people who are quite happy with that, even with an older person. Sometimes if they had an early experience with an older person, they’re comfortable with it. Some young people aren’t that into their own age group. I’m happy to share my intimacy with them. I love culture, so sometimes I might just go to a concert with someone.
You came out a long time ago. How would you compare cruising then to now?Coming out in the 70s meant going out to bars and people were often drunk. You could stay somewhere all night and not get picked up, or take someone home who you weren’t sure of. Going online gives you a lot of options. Obviously, you have to figure out who’s sincere and who’s not, but once you do that, you can set your own parameters and filters, and meet people you’re genuinely into. I find Grindr especially helpful when traveling. When I was in London, England, I got hit on by about 40 guys. I had sex eight times in seven days!
The British seem to have a real inter-generational thing going bear-magazine.com, they do.
So you really don’t experience much ageism online?I’ve seen „no old men“ on profiles, or age limits. But I don’t feel threatened or upset by that, because when I was younger I had exactly the same feelings. I didn’t like older guys. I can respect that preference, but people should put it in a way that’s polite and respectful.
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