bars</tle><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1vd04" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->28:47</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->28:47</div></div></div></div></hear><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxyw"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-9wqu2x">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. Compani</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Tech bs have been g onle wrg to velop their chatbots — whout permissn.</h4><time dateTime="2023-07-18T10:00:12.000Z" class="css-1e605">2023-07-18T06:00:12-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This transcript was created g speech regnn software. While has been reviewed by human transcribers, may nta errors. Please review the episo d before quotg om this transcript and email wh any qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From “The New York Tim,” I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today, to refe their popular technology, new artificial telligence platforms, like ChatGPT, are gobblg up the work of thors, poets, edians and actors, whout their nsent. As my lleague, Sheera Frenkel, found, a rebelln is brewg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s Tuday, July 18.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sheera, is really nice to have you back. It has been far too long.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I agree. It’s great to be back here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We are turng to you our ongog and very diligent efforts to unrstand this new era artificial telligence and the bate that is ragg over s like ChatGPT, which have put artificial telligence really at everyone’s fgertips.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And rrect me if I’m wrong, but really feels like this is shapg up as a clash between those who are really exced about the pabili of s like ChatGPT — you know, what n do next? This is so tertg. And this huge group of people who are jt eaked out about , right? And ’s gog too far, ’s too sry. And we’ve done a lot of episos about this. A recent one looked at stunts who love ChatGPT, bee n do their homework for them, and their teachers and profsors who are like, wa a mute, you’re basilly cheatg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And you have been reportg on the latt chapter of this clash between human and mache. So tell about that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, what I’ve been foced on is really jt all the battl over what go to the AI mach. And what mak them powerful, what mak them able to imate human voice is all of the ntent that we’ve put onle over all the years. It’s the poems, and the blogs, and the photographs, and the illtratns that are then pied, and scraped, and fed to the AI mach. It’s what teach them to imate human behavr.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the past six months, as this software has bee really powerful and very popular, more and more people have started askg qutns about whether they want their ntent fed to AI mach. And if they don’t want there, if there’s really anythg they n do about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So tell who exactly the people are who are askg the qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They kd of fall to two groups. There are the people who are dog so bee ’s their livelihood. They have a pyright on their material, and they have some kd of legal protectn agast their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The other group are the hobbyists. They’re the people who are wrg stori for the fun of , that are jt creatg art bee they’re passnate about somethg. And they’re puttg stuff out to the ether of the ter. They love . They want to share wh the world. This is jt a te moment of human creativy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But, you know, both of the groups are seeg ChatGPT, they’re seeg the AI pani valued at hundreds of lns of dollars, and they’re realizg that their creativy is makg someone else a lot of money. And they’re feelg exploed. They’re feelg like their creativy, their moment of spiratn is beg ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So let’s start wh this first group of creativ who sound like they are the big fish bee they have pyright protectn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. The are people like actors, animators, wrers, people who make their livelihood by uploadg what they’re dog to the ter. And so they’ve been really alarmed when a ChatGPT along and n produce art their style or n wre a paragraph their style.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I go — I go to the hotel. Super fancy hotel —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Take, for stance, Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— and I go to check . Oh, and the lady at the ont sk regnized me. And she was like, oh, my god, I love you. You are my top four all time favore edians.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She is a edian, an actor, a wrer, who has honed an credibly distctive style over s of workg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I was like, you know that I know that means I’m fourth, right?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not walkg away om this like, ooh, maybe I’m send, you know? No.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And if you go to ChatGPT and say, “Tell me a joke the style of Sarah Silverman”— which is somethg I tried out — really gets her spot on. And she argu that not only has read her jok and read her other onle edy, but that ’s even read this book that she wrote “Betwetter,” which has been upload onle and exists onle versns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She appears pretty nvced that ’s sentially learned who she is and what her edic style is. It n mimic her to the gree that you thk is her wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m gusg ChatGPT likely did that whout askg her permissn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. There is no permissns beg asked here bee there are sentially — image the giant mach that are crawlg the ter at all tim. And any data they e across, they llect. They scrape . They don’t know what they’re dog. They’re nvertg to numbers. It’s basilly bee math the systems. And so anythg onle is nstantly beg hoovered up by the mach and fed to AI systems.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so for a creative profsnal like Sarah Silverman, that feels credibly threateng terms of their livelihood, their abily to make a livg off of beg an artist wh an pennt voice that’s been honed over s. If a mache n do that, why would you need to pay Sarah Silverman to e and wre your script or pen a edy special?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm. But how n you be so sure that ChatGPT is really stealg om you if you’re someone like Sarah Silverman, or if you’re anybody, really, whose work has been upload by ChatGPT? Bee my gus is that this gets a ltle b sticky. How much of is jt guswork and how much of is really beg rived om sentially borrowed or stolen material?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Defely. I mean, well, to beg wh, there are the reposori where you n go and check and see if your work has been scraped. A lot of artists do this. A lot of wrers do . And they’ll see there that your name will appear or your piece of art will appear. And so for someone like Sarah Silverman, she n go and see, OK, right, my book has been scraped.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But more specifilly, ’s really jt playg wh this, and ttg out for yourself and toyg wh . I was cur as I was reportg this story, so I went onle and I typed my name. And I said, “Can you wre a paragraph about the danger of onle extremism the voice of Sheera Frenkel?”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Which is the subject you ver, of urse —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— over and over and over aga for “The Tim.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, exactly. And I’ve wrten books. I’ve been wrg about for over a . It’s out there. My material is out there. And when I tell you that even after knowg about AI for a year, even after verg this topic for a year, I was creeped out at how close got my voice. I uld have easily wrten this sentence.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Expla that. I mean, I’m not on ChatGPT right now, so I n’t replite the search. But what happened when you said, you know, “Wre a paragraph about the subject I know bt, Sheera Frenkel,” and sp out the rults. What about felt so distctively Sheera Frenkel-que?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I will read to you. So wr this one openg sentence, which is “Onle platforms once hailed as bastns of ee exprsn have bee breedg grounds for hate, radilizatn, and the propagatn of dangero iologi.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That exprsn, “the bastns of ee exprsn,” I’ve ed that. I googled . I ed that an article ls than a year ago and aga an article three years ago. I didn’t even realize that that was a phrase or a turn of phrase that I often ed until ChatGPT repeated back to me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It’s kd of a distctive set of words you’re sayg that you turn to. And jt borrowed om you replitg your work.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, knew my bra better than I did. I didn’t realize that that was phrasg I equently ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I had to go to “The New York Tim” archiv to figure out, oh, yeah, ’s right, I do e that. And, oh, my god, I probably ed too often bee this mache has learned about me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And suffice to say, you were not, like Sarah Silverman, nsulted about your work beg scraped by ChatGPT.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Nope. We were never nsulted. And no one at “The New York Tim” was nsulted.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Got . So Sarah Silverman did not like that experience. You scribed as a ltle b eerie. I’m wonrg if ’s a touch flatterg to have ChatGPT borrow your stuff?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Or if you worry about the long-term enomic nsequenc of all, which is to say that someday ChatGPT might be able to replite your journalism so brilliantly, that maybe “The Tim” don’t need you on the beat anymore.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, you know, I’ve actually spent so much time thkg about this. And there’s a part of me that was thkg, oh, god, kd of would be nice when I was done wh reportg to plug my not to a mache and have — there are days where would be nice to have a mache wre my article for me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But no, no, I thought about more, and then I was like, yeah, n imate what I’ve already done. But the whole pot of news is that what we’re brgg you is h and based on new reportg. So the nclns we’re drawg for rears are nstantly changg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And AI n’t do that. It n only repeat and regurgate what’s already been given to , what’s already the system. And so whatever answer giv you might be what Sheera Frenkel thought about somethg two years ago or five years ago. But won’t be what the newt ia is or the ht reportg has brought rears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It might jt keep tellg the world that you thk somethg’s a bastn of ee exprsn when you thk ’s a bastn of not ee exprsn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If ’s bee a bastn of hate speech and extremism.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so what n creativ do about, sentially, this theft, right? What n the Sheera Frenkels and the Sarah Silvermans of the world do, and what are they dog about this problem?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the creativ wh the pyright, the creativ wh the legal protectn of a pyright n file lawsus. And that’s exactly what we’re seeg happen. There’s been nearly a dozen lawsus that have been filed agast AI pani by everybody om book publishers to dividuals who have pyright protectns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And one of them was Sarah Silverman, who got together wh another two thors to sue several AI pani, cludg Meta, which is the parent pany of Facebook, and OpenAI, which is the parent pany of ChatGPT, to say that their work was illegally scraped, and download, and upload to the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And Sheera, what do legal experts thk are the chanc that this kd of a lawsu om a Sarah Silverman will prevail agast a pany like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, you know, this is all brand new. It’s brand new se law. But they know they have to tablish some kd of law or precent gog forward bee this is material wh a pyright. For a lot of artists, books they wrote 10 years ago or 15 years ago, that’s gog to ntue to make them money throughout their liv.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And y, they’re evolvg nstantly as artists. They want to thk about their material gog forward. They don’t want ChatGPT to wre their jok for them gog forward. But they also want to be paid for the books that have already been published and are already out there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so is the feelg that old school pyright law will provi someone like Sarah Silverman wh the legal protectns that she’s seekg?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, the legal experts seem credibly hopeful that there is some kd of pyright protectn here, and that, sentially, some kd of fancial damag will be award, and that some kd of moary value will be placed on the very strong pyright protectns that creative profsnals get.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The problem is that even if they get that money, even if Meta or OpenAI are forced to pay some kd of damag to Sarah Silverman, the ntent, the data, n never be retrieved. It’s out there. It’s bee numbers and on and zeros fed to a mache. There’s no way to go to , to that mache, and get that data back out. Once ’s , ’s forever.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so ultimately, even if they do get that fancial reward through the urt system, and they get the pyright protectn to their material affirmed by the urts, their data is gone. Their data is there forever.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In other words, the horse is out of the stable. I assume that’s te, Sheera, for , for “The Tim,” for the work of people like you. We n’t retrieve your journalism back om a ChatGPT. So is “The Tim,” like Sarah Silverman, thkg of sug the AI pani?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So “The New York Tim,” to the bt of our knowledge, is not lookg at a lawsu. What we’ve seen “The New York Tim” and other news publishers do is start to thk about how to start chargg for this data gog forward. I mean, “The New York Tim” is creatg tons of ntent every sgle day that the mach want to stay up to date.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they’re really tryg to figure out if there’s some kd of fancial arrangement that n be put to place where the AI pani pay . And ’s not jt news publishers. Webs, like Redd, they’re lookg at licensg their data as well. They’re sayg, this data is herently valuable and we want you to pay for .</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But look, that’s gog to take a long time for them to e to an agreement. This is a brand new mol. This is a brand new technology. And the meantime, the data is still beg scraped. In the meantime, the systems have all the articl that have already been published. They probably are beg updated on new articl as they e out. And so all this material is still beg fed to the mach as the talks are ongog.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And will be for some time. So you’re sayg the pyright protected creators, who would seem to have the strongt posn this equatn, are not really mountg that forceful a phback spe the anger that you’re scribg here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. I mean, they are g the urts. They are g the legal system. But as we know, that’s slow. Wag for the urts to take actn, wag for lawyers to hammer out a fancial agreement between a massive news anizatn and an AI pany is a slow procs.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And what’s tertg for me is that this other group of people that I mentned, those that don’t have a pyright protectn, the hobbyists, the enthiasts, the people that are postg to the ter for the fun of , they’re the on that are leadg the most creative rebelln or revolt agast AI.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So Sheera, tell more about this send group of creators who are fightg back agast AI platforms — the hobbyists and amatrs, as you’ve scribed them, who lack the legal pyright protectns of people like you and Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So actually a group I spent a lot of time terviewg and thkg about was fan fictn wrers. And for anyone who’s not faiar — bee before I reported this story, I’d never actually read any fanfic, there are —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Fanfic? Now you’re an thory.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m now ep the fandoms. The are people who watch a movie like “Star Wars” and love , but walk away om thkg, what would happen if the ma characters at the end, Kylo Ren and Rey didn’t die? What if they fell love and got married? And I’m really sorry if I’m havg movie spoilers my answers here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What would happen if “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” two of the vampir met high school and had a gay romance? I mean, they take the popular movi and TV shows, and they let their imagatns roam. And they publish the credible — I mean, book-length piec of ntent — about their favore movi and TV shows.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And, you know, this is not stuff they have any kd of pyright to. If anythg, they’re borrowg om ias and characters that are already out there. But they’re dog for the love of those characters and the storyl that they want to explore their own wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how did wrers of fanfictn disver that their work was beg sucked up by platforms like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they actually disvered this a really, really funny way, which is that fan fictn, you create your own characters. And some of them have nam like Bucky, which is a batn of several characters om “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. [LAUGHS]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they go to ChatGPT and they type , “Wre me a story about Bucky fallg love wh a vampire. Wre me a story about Bucky on a summer day eatg a popsicle.” And ChatGPT knew who that character was wh great specificy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another example that was actually given to me — and this was the most outrageo example as far as the fanfictn wrers were ncerned — is that there’s this sexual trope, lled the omegaverse, which fan fictn wrers really like to explore. And ’s very, very specific to fanfictn. And ChatGPT knew all about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re not gog to tell any more about ?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m very nfed about myself.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m pretty new to fanfictn. From what I’ve read, there’s like tentacl volved. And ’s —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">— I don’t thk ’s appropriate for the podst.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sure, sure, sure, sure.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the pot is there’s no reason an AI mache would know about unls had read and gted their fanfictn wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Why would ChatGPT know anythg about this unls was scrapg fanfictn? But Sheera, aren’t the fanfictn wrers postg stuff that’s fair game, right? They don’t have pyright.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, they know they don’t have pyright protectns. But they still feel really, you know, wound. They’re afonted at the ia that the mach have scraped what is, for them, very much a labor of love.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the fan fictn wrers I spoke to had spent s dog this. They had done as a form of therapy. They had done as an act of love towards the movi and televisn shows that they felt creatively spired by. And they felt like the mach are sentially attackg the very spir of human creativy that they had been prolific about onle.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. Right. This is not necsarily their full time job. This is not how they make money. But you’re sayg taps to, some ways, who they are. It’s part of their inty. And so, on a moral level, they n’t tolerate ChatGPT jt stealg .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Many of them have day jobs where they make money. But their love, their passn is gog to this fan fictn. And they’ve tablished the really tertg ternal l on the foms where they post, where if one person imat another or borrows om another whout attributn, ’s nsired outrageo. They are booted om the muny. They are exmunited.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They really have a lot of honor how they operate onle. And they want that to be rpected by the mach. And so li of that, they’ve had to get really, really creative about how they rebel or how they revolt agast the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how creative have they gotten? What are they dog?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. So I mean, for stance, one of the first protts they lnched is they got together and started feedg jt absolute nonsense to ChatGPT. They figured if you’re gog to scrape our material, we’re gog to give you total irreverent nonsense to nfe you so you don’t unrstand our characters, you don’t unrstand our storyle, and you nnot mimic what we do.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they n’t sue, but they n gum up the works. They n basilly jt shove sticks and ston to this mache and try to grd out the gears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly. I mean, they had to thk creatively. And so they thought, if you want our material, here’s our material. We’re gog to give you nonsense.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And do that tactic work?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, n if they do enough of . And they seem pretty mted and passnate about dog this. But they haven’t stopped there. A lot of them have also started makg their ntent private or removg om the web entirely. And so their thkg is, you know, until now they’ve shared all this eely, but if the mach are gog to e and scrape what they do, they’re gog to start lockg down.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Both of the techniqu, though, would seem to be pretty unterproductive if you’re the bs of creatg fan fictn. The first one jt creat a bunch of gibberish, which no one wants to read if you like fan fictn. The send one would lim who n view the fan fictn you wre. So aren’t the rebellns agast plac like ChatGPT jt hurtg the fan fictn muny? Aren’t they jt shootg themselv the foot?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, to a certa gree. And a lot of them say they kd of feel like they are, the short-term, dog somethg that go agast the entire spir of fan fictn. But they feel helpls. And so I thk, at this pot, they’re jt throwg darts at the wall to see what sticks and what works.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A lot of them have been the muni for a long time, and so their thkg is, well, I might only get to share my wrg wh a uple dozen people, stead of a uple thoand, but at least the mach won’t get me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So don’t really feel like eher of the two groups, Sheera, that we’ve been talkg about here — the group wh pyright protectns and the amatrs who don’t have pyright protectns — neher of them seem to be much of a match for the AI platforms and stoppg them om scrapg their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So that mak me thk that if you’re one of the wrers, the better solutn would be for the US ernment to step wh some simple regulatn that says, ChatGPT, for example, you n’t upload this work unls you pay for . And I know the ernment is havg the nversatns. There have been lots of ngrsnal heargs. So is that a possibily? The ernment says, no uploadg unls you pay the wrers and the creators.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, ’s te that the US ernment is havg talks wh all of the AI pani. But we have to remember that we’re still wag for the US ernment to take actn and e up wh some kd of regulatn about social media that’s been around for over a .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment is very, very slow-actg. And the vast majory of members of Congrs are still wrappg their head around how this technology even works. And so whatever they do is years ahead. And ’s gog to be tempered by the fact that they don’t want to hold back the pani too much.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm. Expla that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment se self an arms race, at the moment, agast Cha when to AI. Both Cha and the Uned Stat have a lot of scientists that are vted this. They have a lot of tert beg the world lears artificial telligence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they know that every b of regulatn they put place potentially holds back those US pani, as opposed to Cha, where there’s very ltle regulatn on data and where there’s a ton of data onle that the Che ernment n easily accs and even give to Che AI pani if they want to speed ahead what’s nsired the AI arms race between the US and Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the US ernment might have an tert actually sidg wh the AI platforms over the creators bee mak more petive agast our rivals.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I mean, they don’t want to hamper US AI pani to the pot where they fall behd Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. In which se, feels like the only way for creative typ and for publishg platforms, like “The Tim,” to fight back is to fight back really on their own, for the next however many years. And I’m cur, Sheera, if, your reportg, you thk the plats of the Sarah Silvermans and the publishg platforms is actually gog to make the general public sympathetic and lead to a larger sle phback agast the ChatGPT-like platforms, or if the realy is jt that people like the thgs, they’re exced about them, and that’s gog to overri any of the worri that we’re talkg about.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, look, right now the people that are angry are the people that n see that their work has been pied or scraped and regurgated. It’s people who are already seeg that the mach have gted their work and n py their voic a really realistic way. And we don’t know what’s gog to happen gog forward.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, pani like Google and Facebook are still cidg on how they’re gog to tra their AI. And what happens if Facebook’s AI cis to tra on your data, and n fd posts that you wrote 10 years ago when you were llege and sound jt like you, or if Google cis to read your email and your Google docs, and n say, hey, this is what Michael sounds like when he’s planng a vatn wh his fay? Is the creeps factor then that much more that all of feel like our souls are beg replited by mach?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And do that mean that sudnly we are all the fan fictn wrer? We are all Sarah Silverman. We are all sudnly seeg the platforms slowly suckg a versn of out and and givg to the world a way that is very weird.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Do bee a “Black Mirror” episo? It’s unclear. But uld be that the AI systems are so extremely eful and beneficial for our liv that none of re. Bee at one pot, people were really mad about Facebook suckg up their data and servg them ads and Google dog the same. And then we ultimately cid that they provid such a eful service that was OK wh that they sucked up our data. And we’re really jt the begng of this technology. And so we don’t know yet.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, one of the fanfic wrers I spoke to actually put a really lovely way that — she was the middle of wrg this new piece of fictn, and happened to be about AI robots vers humans. And she stopped midway through wrg bee she didn’t want to post onle and feed more to the mache.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But she said that where she’s stuck and the thought she’s really stuck on is that this piece of fictn she was wrg, not every AI robot was bad. Some of them were helpful. Some of them were nice. Some of them were good. And some of them were evil. And was really about how the rporatns behd those robots e them that cid whether they were good or evil.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so she felt like she jt had so many qutns about the pani nng the AI, and how they’re g the data, and how they’re gog to license , and what value is gog to be — all the qutns are swirlg around her head. And ’s like, are the robots good or bad? We don’t know yet, and so we don’t feel fortable wh them.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so did she end up postg any of the story onle?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, she has not posted yet. I thk she still has too many qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, Sheera, thank you very much. We appreciate .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you for havg me. [MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here’s what else you need to know today — on Monday, Rsia said would end an agreement that had allowed Ukrae to export lns of tons of gra to the rt of the world, threateng global food pric and the food supply dozens of untri that rely on the gra.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The year-old agreement, known as the “Black Sea Gra Iniative,” was a succsful attempt to lim the global repercsns of Rsia’s war on Ukrae. But Rsia has repeatedly plaed that the agreement favored Ukrae over s own people.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I eply regret the cisn by the Rsian Feratn to termate the implementatn of the “Black Sea Iniative.”</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Durg a news nference, the head of the Uned Natns said that Rsia’s cisn would e unnecsary sufferg across the world.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s cisn by the Rsian Feratn will strike a blow to people need everywhere.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And smoke om wildfir Canada is returng to the US this week. By Monday afternoon, was affectg about 72 ln Amerins across 29 stat, om the Dakotas to New York. Nearly 900 wildfir are burng across Canada. Of those, the Canadian ernment says that more than 500 of them are burng out of s ntrol.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s episo was produced by Clare Toeniskoetter, Rob Szypko and Mooj Zadie. It was eded by Devon Taylor wh help om Lisa Chow, ntas origal mic by Elisheba Ittoop, and was engeered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme mic is by Jim Bnberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonrly.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url()" class="css-18qqsen e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1kltdsh ehra6vc0"><a href=" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="The Daily logo" src="><span>The Daily</span></span></a><span class="css-1lhttlg ehra6vc1"><span class="css-sj5ozi ehra6vc2">Subscribe:</span><ul class="css-hx5n"><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Apple Podsts</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Google Podsts</a></li></ul></span></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-1gu519p edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1xbyom1 edye5kn2">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. 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is carry on a gay book

My ratg: 3 of 5 stars This Book Is Gay Juno Dawson From the blurb: ...

Contents:

YOU CAN'T READ THAT! BANNED BOOK REVIEW: THIS BOOK IS GAY

The hband of Transportatn Secretary and former a2020 printial ndidate Pete Buttigieg is speakg about the young adult adaptatn of his memoir, cludg his experience g out as gay. * is carry on a gay book *

Wright, her cisn now go to the school board, which will discs the book challenge at s Monday meetg agenda and vote on a cisn on Tallahassee mom who submted the challenge, Katie Lyons, said her dghter, then a send grar at a lol elementary school, brought home the children's book about Kg, a tennis legend who is gay — and also brought qutns to her mother about a page regardg Kg's sexual orientatn. “It is important that be ma clear that this book was challenged not bee the book mentns Billie Jean Kg is gay, ” Lyons told the school board at a meetg last week.

Regardls of orientatn, homosexual or heterosexual, the topic of sexual orientatn is not age-appropriate or velopmentally-appropriate for elementary stunts. "I object to material that discs beg gay and what means to be gay, " wrote page drawg the challenge reads: "Around this time, I realized I was gay.

WISNS MIDDLE SCHOOL FEATUR 'THIS BOOK IS GAY' LIBRARY, STIRRG ONLE OUTRAGE

* is carry on a gay book *

Beg gay means that if you're a girl, you love and have romantic feelgs for other girls — and if you're a boy, you love and have romantic feelgs for other boys.

BANNED BOOKS 2023 – THIS BOOK IS GAY

The ntroversial tle scrib genalia, gay sex and rmatn about the e of homosexual datg apps. * is carry on a gay book *

"Lyons matas the book is ntrary to state law, largely cg the Parental Rights Edutn Act, dubbed "Don't Say Gay" by crics, which prohibs stctn on sexual orientatn or genr inty book challenge law:Florida schools stggle to apply new book law which even Shakpeare is 'spect'Why 's beg challenged:Tallahassee mom mak se that 'I am Billie Jean Kg' book 'g' on parents' rightsWright, her July 10 remendatn, unters that the book isn’t ed as “stctn” and poted to a clarifitn the Florida Department of Edutn issued statg that "cintal referenc" books to LGBTQ people are not also said a new law, HB 1069, directed each school district to adopt procs allowg parents to lim their child’s accs to library material. "The excln of one of the profil jt bee of the intifitn of the ma subject as homosexual is not the tentn of any law or statute passed by the Florida Legislature, " Syett Lyons said the parental book review procs is not enough to screen qutnable materials accsible to their stunts.

“It’s a book I wish I would have had when I was terrified, when I was believg that I was the only gay person the world for a long time. Do anyone have any zy gay books? After In Other Lands and The Hoe In The Celean Sea (currently my favore book) I was left reelg for more zy books wh gay/LGBT characters.

WHY AUTHOR RABOW ROWELL THKS HER REARS ARE MORE THAN READY FOR A GAY TEEN LOVE STORYBY JOANNA ROBSONOCTOBER 8, 2015RIGHT, BY AUGTEN BURROUGHSSAVE THIS STORYSAVESAVE THIS STORYSAVEAUTHOR RABOW ROWELL HAS BEEN WRG FOR MOST OF HER ADULT LIFE. BUT THE FORMER JOURNALIST AND AD WRER BURST ONTO THE FICTN SCENE A BIG WAY WHEN HER 2013 NOVEL ELEANOR & PARK WAS HEAPED WH UNANIMO CRIL PRAISE AND MOUNTAS OF AWARDS, AND LAND HER AN ARMY OF LOYAL FANS THAT CLU THE KD OF DISENANCHISED TEENS SHE VERED SO SENSIVELY AND REALISTILLY HER BREAKOUT H. UNBELIEVABLY, ROWELL, 42, HAS RELEASED THREE BOOKS SCE, CLUDG LANDLE, FANGIRL, AND HER LATT, CARRY ON. ALL HER BOOKS—CLUDG THE FIRST, ATTACHMENTS—HAVE SHARED THE SAME UNNNY ABILY TO REACH OUT AND GRAB THE REAR BY THE HEART AND SQUEEZE. BUT THAT’S WHERE THE SIARI END. ROWELL’S BOOKS ARE RARELY AIMED AT THE SAME DIENCE, VER THE SAME TOPIC, OR ADHERE TO ANY FORMULAIC GENRE TROP THAT DOG SO MANY STORI THAT ARE EQUALLY POPULAR WH TEENS.HER LATT NOVEL, CARRY ON, IS THE BIGGT STRETCH YET. IT’S A LH FANTASY BASED ON A FICTNAL HARRY POTTER–QUE BOOK SERI, SIMON SNOW, THAT FEATURED PROMENTLY ROWELL’S BT-SELLG FANGIRL. THE TULAR FAN GIRL OF THAT BOOK WROTE HUGELY POPULAR FAN FICTN, CARRY ON, SIMON, BASED ON A LOVE STORY BETWEEN SIMON (OUR HARRY POTTER PROXY) AND BAZ (A VAMPIRE WH SHAS OF DRA MALFOY). ROWELL TOOK HER META-TEXTUAL TERACTN WH THE POPULAR J.K. ROWLG SERI ONE STEP FURTHER CARRY ON, WHERE BAZ, SIMON, AND THEIR IENDS AGATHA AND PENELOPE TAKE NTROL OF THE NARRATIVE. WE SPOKE WH ROWELL ABOUT CARRY ON, THAT LONG-AWAED ELEANOR & PARK MOVIE, AND THE POWER OF THE YOUNG-ADULT DIENCE THAT NTU TO DRIVE MONUMENTAL SAL THE BOOK DTRY.__VF HOLLYWOOD: IN THE AFTERWORD TO YOUR NEW BOOK, CARRY ON, YOU TALK ABOUT GETTG TO WRE YOUR FIRST “CHOSEN ONE” FANTASY STORY. I FEEL YOU KNOW YOU’VE MA WHEN YOUR BOOK HAS A MAP ON THE END PAPERS. HOW FUN WAS TO BUILD YOUR OWN FANTASTIL UNIVERSE? __RABOW ROWELL: IT WAS FUN BEE I KNEW THAT MY BOOK WAS GOG TO BE REFERENTIAL AND TAKE THAT VOBULARY AND TAKE THOSE NCEPTS AND JT TWIST AND TURN AND PLAY WH THEM. IN A WAY, A FANTASY, ANYTHG N HAPPEN, BUT ALSO FANTASI, THE SAME THGS TEND TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGA.I’VE FELY SEEN THE BAZ AND SIMON NARRATIVE CARRY ON REFERRED TO AS “GAY HARRY POTTER.” WAS HARD TO AVOID ALLUDG TO HOGWARTS AND THE WORLD J. K. ROWLG CREATED CRAFTG YOUR OWN MAGIL BOARDG SCHOOL? OR DID YOU LEAN TO ?I WANTED TO REFERENCE HARRY POTTER TENTNAL WAYS, BUT I WANTED THE CHARACTERS TO FEEL LIKE THEY HAD THEIR OWN LIV. IF THERE’S EVER A HARRY POTTER OR STAR WARS OR LORD OF THE RGS OR A TWILIGHT REFERENCE, I WANT TO FEEL VERY MUCH TENTNAL. “LOOK AT WHAT I’M DOG HERE.” I KNOW HARRY AS A CHARACTER REALLY WELL BEE I’VE VTED SO MUCH TIME HIM, AND DRA AS WELL, SO WAS FUN TO REFERENCE THEM. IF YOU’RE READG MY BOOKS, YOU'VE READ HARRY POTTER, YOU’VE SEEN THE STAR WARS MOVI, YOU’VE SEEN THE LORD OF THE RGS MOVI, YOU’VE WATCHED BUFFY. IT’S FUN TO HAVE AN DIENCE THAT YOU N LOOK AT AND YOU N WK AT LIKE, “OH, SEE WHAT I’M DOG HERE?”__EXACTLY. IT’S PRETTY CLEAR __WE ALMOST ALWAYS HAVE AN ORPHAN—AND THIS IS LIKE EVERY DISNEY PRCS STORY TOO—WE START WH A SGULAR ORPHAN. ALMOST ALWAYS THE NEXT THG THAT HAPPENS IS THEY MEET SOMEONE, UALLY AN OLD WHE GUY THE SERT WHO TELLS THEM, “YOU’RE SUPER SPECIAL AND YOU’RE GOG TO SAVE THE WORLD.” IN THE STORI, THEY ALWAYS SAY TO THE HOBO THEY MET THE SERT, “YEAH, AWOME. GIVE ME THE LIGHTSABER. I WILL FOLLOW YOU OFF MY PLA, STRANGE HOBO I’VE MET THE SERT, AND I WILL SAVE THE WORLD FOR YOU. I WILL SACRIFICE MY WHOLE LIFE. I WILL NEVER GET MARRIED. I JT MET YOU, AND I’M ONLY 18, BUT I’M AN ORPHAN, AND YOU’VE GIVEN ME A MISSN AND I’M GOG TO FIX THE WORLD.” IT WAS FUN THIS BOOK TO BE LIKE, “OR NOT.” IT’S VERY HUMANIZG TO BE CHOSEN. AGATHA REALLY SE THROUGH THAT AND JT SE ALL OF THE OBLIGATN AND THE SADNS, THE BURN OF .YOU’VE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT FDG YOURSELF THE Y.A. SECTN ALMOST BY ACCINT. ELEANOR & PARK WASN’T TENTNALLY A Y.A. BOOK. WHAT DO FEEL LIKE TO BE THE CHOSEN ONE OF THE Y.A. SECTN? IS THAT A BURN?IT IS MOSTLY JT A JOY AND PLEASURE BEE TEEN REARS—YOU REMEMBER BEG A TEEN REAR—THEY’RE CREDIBLY ENGAGED AND THEY HAVE A LOT OF ENERGY AND ENTHIASM FOR WHAT THEY DO. BUT STILL FEELS WEIRD BEE SOMETIM I FEEL LIKE PEOPLE EXPECT ME TO BE THKG OF MY TEEN DIENCE AT EVERY STEP, LIKE I ME TO TOWN AND SAID, “I’M HERE TO SERVE YOU, TEENAGERS. WHAT DO YOU WANT?” I DIDN’T DO THAT. I DIDN’T WRE ELEANOR & PARK THKG, WHAT’S THE BT BOOK I N WRE FOR A TEENAGER? I JT WROTE THKG, WHAT BOOK DO I WANT TO WRE?BUT SOME WAYS TEENS HAVE MORE TIME, SO THEY GIVE THEMSELV WHOLEHEARTEDLY. EVEN ADULTS WHO READ Y.A. READ MORE WHOLEHEARTEDLY AND MORE OPENLY AND MORE PASSNATELY. THE ADULT WHO CROSS OVER AND READS Y.A. IS JT A GENERO REAR.I THK SELF-ACCEPTANCE IS A HUGE PART OF WHAT YOUR REARS—PECIALLY THE TEENAGED ON—HAVE NNECTED TO YOUR WORK. IS NORMALIZG GE GROUPS ON YOUR MD WHEN NSTCTG YOUR STORI?MOST POPULARTHE CAST OF OPPENHEIMER AND THE REAL PEOPLE THEY PLAYBY HILLARY BISSOUND OF FREEDOM: THE WILD TE STORY BEHD 2023’S MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILMBY EVE BATEYRUTH HANDLER: SEX TOYS, FANCIAL CRIM AND THE ORIG OF BARBIEBY ANTHONY BREZNINIF YOU READ FANGIRL, THE POT OF IS NOT NORMALIZG FANDOM. IN ELEANOR & PARK, THAT’S NOT A BOOK ABOUT BEG FAT. I THK IF ’S POWERFUL, ’S JT THE POWER OF WRG ABOUT A FAT PERSON AND THAT SHE’S A NORMAL PERSON WH NORMAL NEEDS AND SIR. HER FATNS IS THERE, BUT ’S NOT HER STORY. I DO THK THAT THE YOUNG-ADULT FICTN IS MORE DIVERSE EVERY WAY. NOT JT PARED TO THE RT OF THE BOOK WORLD, BUT TO THE RT OF THE ENTERTAMENT WORLD. I’M MUCH MORE NSC ABOUT NOW, BUT WHEN I STARTED, I JT WANTED TO WRE WORLDS THAT FELT REAL TO ME AND CHARACTERS THAT FELT REAL TO ME.THE REAL WORLD IS A DIVERSE WORLD. AT THE BEGNG, WAS JT THIS, “WHAT DO THIS WORLD LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO THIS NEIGHBORHOOD LOOK LIKE? WHAT DO THIS B LOOK LIKE?” I THK WHEN YOU TRY TO WRE REALISTILLY, YOU END UP WH MORE DIVERSE BOOKS BEE THE WORLD IS FULL OF PEOPLE WHO E OM DIFFERENT PLAC WHO LOOK DIFFERENT.GIVEN THAT LEVEL OF DIVERSY Y.A., WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF A STRAIGHT WHE GUY LIKE JOHN GREEN BEG NSIRED THE KG OF THE SECTN? DO HIS DOMANCE CROWD OUT OTHER MORE DIVERSE VOIC?I FEEL THAT’S MORE OF A MEDIA CROWDG THAN IS AN ACTUAL CROWDG, BEE I THK JOHN GREEN’S SUCCS BROUGHT MORE PEOPLE TO THE Y.A. SECTN AND MORE PEOPLE READG Y.A. AND MORE PEOPLE READG FEMALE THORS AND MORE PEOPLE READG PERD. JOHN GREEN’S A GREAT THOR WHO STCK A CHORD. THAT HAPPENS OUR CULTURE. IT HAPPENED WH STEPHENIE MEYER, AND HAPPENED WH J. K. ROWLG. STEPHANIE MEYER DID MORE TO BRG PEOPLE TO Y.A.; SHE GOT SO MANY ADULTS READG . ANYWAY, BACK TO JOHN. IN OUR CULTURE, SOME THGS TAKE OFF AND THEY TAKE OFF A HUGE WAY. IT’S BEE THERE’S SOMETHG ABOUT THEM THAT JT REALLY RONAT WH A LOT OF PEOPLE AT ONCE. I DON’T UNRSTAND RENTG THAT. THAT’S LIKE CURSG THE MOON TO ME.I UNRSTAND GETTG ANGRY AT PRIVILEGE AND THE WAY HOW MUCH PRIVILEGE YOU HAVE AFFECTS HOW MUCH SUCCS YOU N EVEN REACH. I TOTALLY UNRSTAND THAT. I UNRSTAND THIS FEELG OF THIS HANDSOME WHE GUY WHO SEEMS LIKE HE ME OM A GOOD FAY, LOOKG AT SOMEONE LIKE THAT AND BEG LIKE, “OF URSE HE SUCCEED.” I UNRSTAND THAT FEELG. I’VE FELT THAT WAY MY LIFE. I THK, THOUGH, JOHN’S JT A GREAT WRER. YOU N’T DIVORCE THAT; YOU N’T PULL THAT ASI. YOU N’T KICK THE FACT THAT HE’S GREAT AND PEOPLE LOVE HIS BOOKS AND JT LOOK AT HIS PRIVILEGE AND SUCCS.SO YOU THK JOHN GREEN WOULD HAVE SUCCEED NO MATTER WHAT?TO ME, ’S LIKE THE WEATHER. THIS THG HAPPENED. I DON’T THK WAS BAD FOR Y.A. WHEN PEOPLE ARE REALLY SUCCSFUL, THEY GET A LOT OF ATTENTN. I’VE ALSO WORKED FOR A NEWSPAPER—I KNOW THAT WHEN YOU ARE WRG A NEWSPAPER STORY, YOU JT SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY, SIMPLIFY. EVERY ARTICLE THAT TRIED TO EXPLA Y.A. TO PEOPLE WHO DIDN’T KNOW WHAT Y.A. IS—OF URSE THOSE ARTICL WERE IRRATG. SOME OF THEM WERE VERY NSCENDG.MOST POPULARTHE CAST OF OPPENHEIMER AND THE REAL PEOPLE THEY PLAYBY HILLARY BISSOUND OF FREEDOM: THE WILD TE STORY BEHD 2023’S MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILMBY EVE BATEYRUTH HANDLER: SEX TOYS, FANCIAL CRIM AND THE ORIG OF BARBIEBY ANTHONY BREZNINOF URSE WHEN A REPORTER LANDS THE Y.A. WORLD, THEY’RE GOG TO NOTICE THE BIG DIPPERS, AND THEY’RE GOG TO SUM UP A WAY THAT DON’T FEEL THENTIC TO BEE THAT’S JT WHAT HAPPENS. I REALLY LIKE JOHN GREEN. MY 10-YEAR-OLD WATCH ONE OF JOHN GREEN’S WEB SERI. YOU KNOW THE ONE. “HOW DO CONGRS WORK? WHAT’S ACTUALLY HAPPENG SYRIA?” HE TOLD ME THAT THEY WATCH THOSE SCHOOL. HE SAID, “YOU KNOW, MOM, YOU’RE AN THOR, BUT JOHN GREEN’S A TEACHER AND AN THOR.” I WAS LIKE, “OH, I KNOW.”I KNOW YOU HAD AN ISSUE, AT LEAST WH ELEANOR & PARK, WHERE AT LEAST ONE LIBRARY NSIRED TOO NTROVERSIAL, TOO EDGY. THERE’S A LOT OF SALTY LANGUAGE CARRY ON. HARRY POTTER SWEARS!I’M NOT REALLY THKG ABOUT THAT. I’M NOT. I’M NEVER THKG, IS O.K. FOR TEENAGERS TO HEAR THIS WORD? I’M THKG, WHAT STORY AM I WRG? I SWORE MORE AS A TEENAGER THAN I HAVE EVER SCE. SIMON IS 18—HE ULD GO TO WAR AND KILL PEOPLE, IF HE WAS AMERIN. OF URSE, HE’S A BRISH WIZARD, AND HE’S ALREADY KILLED PEOPLE. I’M NOT WRG BOOKS TO SHOCK. THERE’S NONE OF THAT THAT BOOK. ALSO, THE CHARACTERS ARE AN EXTREME SUATN. I FELT LIKE WHEN YOU’RE FIGHTG A DRAGON, IF YOU WANT TO SWEAR, YOU SHOULD.WHAT’S THE UPDATE ON THE ELEANOR & PARK MOVIE? WHAT’S HAPPENG?THEY’VE BEEN REALLY GREAT—DREAMWORKS HAS BEEN GREAT. I WROTE THE FIRST DRAFT FOR THEM, AND THEN I TOOK A BREAK TO WORK ON CARRY ON SOME MORE. PEOPLE GET TRATED ON TWTER WH ME A LOT: “WHERE IS ? WHY HASN’T HAPPENED?” NO, NO UPDAT YET. [ROWELL LATER CLARIFIED BY E-MAIL THAT SHE’S WORKG ON THE FILM PROJECT AGA NOW.]ARE YOU STILL DOG THE GRAPHIC-NOVEL PROJECT? IS THAT STILL HAPPENG?I AM. I JT TOOK A LONG TIME ON THIS BOOK. WHEN I FIRST SIGNED THAT AL, WAS LIKE, “IT WILL E OUT ON THIS DATE.” THAT WAS POSSIBLY LAST WEEK. I’M NOT SURE. I’M EXCED ABOUT . IT’S A FANTASY. IT’S A HIDN-WORLD STORY.COMIC BOOKS, EVEN MORE THAN FICTN, SEEM TO BE AIMED AT AGE GROUPS. IS THIS PROJECT AIMED AT A CERTA AGE GROUP ANY WAY? I KNOW YOU DON’T LIKE THAT QUTN!I DON’T LIKE ! I JT DON’T THK THAT’S MY JOB. LET SOMEBODY ELSE FIGURE OUT. I SHOULD JT BE WRG THE BT THG THAT I N WRE AND THEN THEY SHOULD BE LIKE, “HEY, THANK YOU FOR DOG YOUR BT. LET FIGURE OUT WHERE TO SHELVE THIS.” I N’T GET TOO HUNG UP ON THAT. MY FAVORE BOOKS I THK ARE DIFFICULT TO SHELVE; LIKE THE GRAVEYARD BOOK BY NEIL GAIMAN—’S ONE OF MY FAVORE BOOKS.WHEN I WAS A BOOKSELLER WE ED TO SHELVE TWO DIFFERENT SECTNS: ADULT AND MIDDLE REAR. I LOVE A BOOK YOU N DOUBLE SHELVE.MOST POPULARTHE CAST OF OPPENHEIMER AND THE REAL PEOPLE THEY PLAYBY HILLARY BISSOUND OF FREEDOM: THE WILD TE STORY BEHD 2023’S MOST CONTROVERSIAL FILMBY EVE BATEYRUTH HANDLER: SEX TOYS, FANCIAL CRIM AND THE ORIG OF BARBIEBY ANTHONY BREZNINI LOVE OUTLANR. OUTLANR IS A HARD BOOK TO SHELVE. IF YOU PUT THE ROMANCE GENRE, A LOT OF REARS WILL NEVER FD .YOU’VE MENTNED BEFORE THAT SPECIFIC MIC WAS HUGELY FLUENTIAL WHEN YOU WERE WRG ELEANOR & PARK. IS THERE MIC THAT YOU N PEG TO CARRY ON?YEAH, I JT LISTED MY CHARACTER PLAYLIST ON SPOTIFY. FOR ME, BAZ HAD THIS 80S ELECTRONIC-POP MIC AND STUFF THAT SOUNDS LIKE 80S ELECTRONIC-POP MIC AND GOTH-Y SELF-LOATHG STUFF. I LISTENED TO THIS ALBUM OM DEPECHE MO AND A LOT OF DURAN DURAN. I DON’T KNOW IF YOU KNOW THE BAND THE WILD BEASTS, BUT I LISTENED TO SO MUCH WILD BEASTS. THEY’RE SPOOKY SOUNDG AND ALSO VERY NON-DRAMATIC. IN A WAY, SIMON IS MORE OF AN AMERIN CHARACTER. HE’S GOT A SQUARE-JAWED SUPERMAN—THERE’S A LOT OF SUPERMAN STUFF HIM—AND I’M JT REALIZG THAT. I'M TELLG YOU, ORPHANS HAVE TO SAVE THE WORLD. IT’S HIS ONLY JOB, ALL DAY LONG, SAVG THE WORLD. I NNOT BELIEVE I’M JT MAKG THE SUPERMAN NNECTN NOW.FOR SIMON, YOU’LL SEE ON HIS PLAYLIST, HE GETS A LTLE B MORE OF ANTHEM ROCK. I WAS ALSO FOND OF THE SONG IF SAID “RRY ON” , SO THE KANSAS SONG AND THEN SOME STYX. I TENTNALLY ADD A UPLE LOVE SONGS YTERDAY BEE I REALIZED THAT BAZ’S PLAYLIST IS ALL LOVE SONGS, AND SIMON HAD HARDLY ANY, AND I THK ’S BEE HE’S ALL ABOUT SAVG THE WORLD. HE’S NOT ALL ABOUT WRG LOVE POETRY OR MOONG OR YEARNG.I THK ’S PROBABLY NO SECRET THAT THERE IS A ROMANCE BETWEEN TWO YOUNG MEN THIS BOOK.IT’S NOT A SECRET. I’VE BEEN LOUDLY FLAILG THAT OM DAY ONE. PEOPLE KEPT SAYG, ‘I N’T WA FOR THE SUBTEXT,’ AND I HAVE SUCH A NEGATIVE REACTN TO THAT. NO, THIS IS NOT SOME CHEY, WILL-THEY-WON’T-THEY, SUBTEXT-Y THG. THAT’S NOT A GAME I’M TERTED PLAYG. I’M FELY NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO WRE A GAY Y.A. STORY. BY A LN YEARS. I DO THK OUR CULTURE THERE WAS A TIME WHEN THIS HAD TO BE SUBTEXT, BUT I DON’T THK THAT TIME IS NOW. I CID TO SPOIL THEIR ROMANCE ALWAYS, EVERY TIME I TALKED ABOUT . IT’S TEXT. DON’T WATCH FOR THE SUBTEXT, DON’T WATCH FOR THE MOMENTS [ BBC’S SHERLOCK] WHEN SHERLOCK AND JOHN MAKE EYE NTACT AND THE WORLD SETS ON FIRE BUT NONE OF ’S REAL. AS A CULTURE, WE ARE READY FOR TEXT.JOANNA ROBSON

Tle: Carry On Author: Rabow Rowell Ratg: 4/5 Are there LGBT characters? Oh hell y. This is a lightfully gay book. Brief summary / book review: Ok, this is a meta-meta book. Rabow Rowell wrote another book lled Fangirl, where the character wrote fan fictn set world of Carry On wh the same characters… * is carry on a gay book *

This is a lightfully gay book.

CALIFORNIA STILL HAS AN ANTI-GAY MARRIAGE LAW ON THE BOOKS. VOTERS ULD REMOVE NEXT YEAR

Marshall Universy Librari - Banned Book 2023 - Jam Dawson's This Book is Gay. Page on books banned/challenged around the Uned Stat for var reasons over the past year - Ron T * is carry on a gay book *

And gay. It don’t shy away om the gay angle, eher – pletely embrac , which is a great thg to see a YA book. About the seri: Beg a gay rear, I am terted LGBT books, but I haven’t always seen reviews clearly note if there are LGBT characters and how signifint they are.

The Elmbrook School District (Brookfield, WI) spend accs to Queer: A Graphic History by Meg-John Barker and This Book is Gay by Juno Dawson via the school’s e-book app and the school librari followg a challenge om the Wisns Instute for Law and Liberty (WILL). I’m not askg you to have a straight Pri Month, I’m jt askg you not to have a gay Pri month.

TEXAS JUDGE WHO DON’T WANT TO PERFORM GAY MARRIAGE CEREMONI HOP WEB SIGNER’S SUPREME COURT SE HELPS HER FIGHT

Gov. Gav Newsom is takg on nservative Temecula Valley Unified school officials over textbooks that discs sla gay activist Harvey Milk. * is carry on a gay book *

” Some rints suggted mors should not have accs to any lbian, gay, bisexual, transgenr, queer/ qutng, tersex, and asexual (LGBTQIA+) books.

Commissner Shelstad then asked each library board member to answer whether they thought This Book is Gay was appropriate for Campbell County youth.

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* IS CARRY ON A GAY BOOK

Wisns middle school featur 'This Book is Gay' library, stirrg onle outrage | WLUK .

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