Joel Creasey & Gay Boyiend/Partner Show Absolute Bliss; Fay’s Ahead

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grid-full-bleed grid-no-gap SplScreenContentHearMa-fNigKG daohZh"><div class="GridItem-buujkM eHLzLy grid--em"><div class="SplScreenContentHearTleBlock-sCMXE jActCi"><div data-ttid="ContentHearRubric"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX dZhWBL bric SplScreenContentHearRubric-cLHEJQ ildzkT"><a class="RubricLk-gRWSOU fgWnkQ bric__lk" href="/magaze/onward-and-upward-wh-the-arts"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Onward and Upward wh the Arts</span></a></div></div><h1 data-ttid="ContentHearHed" class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SplScreenContentHearHed-lcUSuI iUEiRd NbxED dfelga">Josh Thomas’s Comedy of Self-Diagnosis</h1><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SplScreenContentHearDek-emptdL iUEiRd wOnsu dJrDEb">After his beloved seri “Please Like Me” end, the wrer and actor cid to make a s about tism. Then he wonred why.</div><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl SplScreenContentHearByle-kvEhqE ejWxsm"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH ivtvgj byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span><a class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BaseLk-eNWuiM ByleLk-gEnFiw iUEiRd ggMZaT cXqSTL eErqIx byle__name-lk button" href="/ntributors/alex-barasch">Alex Barasch</a></span></span></p></div><time data-ttid="ContentHearPublishDate" dateTime="2021-04-05T06:00:00-04:00" class="SplScreenContentHearPublishDate-bMGEVk gvRvVr">April 5, 2021</time><div class="SocialInsWrapper-hKMEXV ffgPVr social-ins social-ins--standard SplScreenContentHearSocialShare-gSVclr kUKgnn"><ul data-ttid="socialInslist" class="SocialInsList-cHVTIA 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1600w, 1920w, 2240w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Josh Thomas" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></picture></span></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 SplScreenContentHearGrid-kFpOdh fLkIyA"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="CaptnWrapper-jSZdqE iTuhkZ ptn SplScreenContentHearCaptn-iOfEOv ckLUKG"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnText-bHjzlu iUEiRd hWyo iXWezO ptn__text">Thomas’s characters often stumble and regrs; there are no tidy “arcs.”</span><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnCred-ejegDm iUEiRd iicloT jbIJNS ptn__cred">Illtratn by Max Dalton</span></div></div></div></hear></div><div data-attribute-verso-pattern="article-body" class="ArticlePageContentBackGround-cNiFNN kbAoLA article-body__ntent"><div class="ActnBarWrapperContent-lasBkU cAHp"><div class="ActnBarWrapperComponent-cjwxLS bEeSLb"><div data-attr-viewport-monor="" 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data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><figure data-ttid="IameEmbed" class="IameEmbedWrapper-sc-dRedg cjyRVU iame-embed"><div data-ttid="IameEmbedContaer" class="IameEmbedContaer-hptgUZ fXVBaX"><div class="IameEmbedAspectRatWrapper-hFVJps BKpgQ"><iame class="IameEmbedContent-cMdiev csnuAY IameEmbedContent lazyload" height="90" width="100%" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-orig allow-popups" tle="Embedd Frame" data-src=" allowfullscreen="" allow="toplay *; encrypted-media *; clipboard-wre; toplay; fullscreen; picture--picture"></iame></div></div></figure><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">The Atralian edian Josh Thomas was at the olst gay bar New York, batg how much to say about a breakup. It was March, 2020, and he was tourg wh his standup show “Whoopsie Daisy,” which he riffed on, among other thgs, the lonels he’d faced after movg om Melbourne to Los Angel. “I don’t like beg alone, but I’m not good at beg <em>around</em> people,” he’d told an dience earlier that night, at the SoHo Playhoe. “I asked my iends how I uld be better at socializg. I had never nsired before—I was twenty-eight! And they said, ‘Josh, what you need to do is, you need to ask qutns, and then listen to the answers.’ ” Glancg around the theatre crloly, he asked, “Have <em>you</em> guys heard about this?” After the performance, I walked wh him to the Wt Village, eventually duckg to the bar, Juli’, search of food. Upon enterg, Thomas ran to an ex-boyiend om Atralia, who was vatng the cy. They exchanged a few pleasantri—then, after the ex was out of earshot, he nfid to me that the relatnship had end gomely. “I’m a b embarrassed now,” he admted. “But ’s good narrative for you, isn’t ?”</p><p class="paywall">Thomas, now thirty-three, is the creator of “<a href=">Please Like Me</a>,” the Atralian seri that beme a queer cult classic, and the Amerin s “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay,” about a teen-ager on the tism spectm, which is about to beg s send season on Hulu. Whether onscreen, onstage, or off, he speaks quickly and edorializ often. If he cis that an anecdote is sufficiently tertg, he’ll abandon , refg entreati to keep gog. If a story is good, his sire to tell feats any sense of self-prervatn. Thomas said of the ex, “We had had, like, a proper romance. And he said to me, ‘I really like you, but I don’t want to have sex wh you. I’m not attracted to you. I thk ’s better that I tell you the tth.’ ” Thomas, who has pared his own face to a “melted ndle,” mimed outrage to me, but he was supprsg a gr. “I said, ‘Absolutely not! You should have lied! No one wants to be told that. I would so much prefer were my personaly, or <em>anythg</em>, than this. This is the worst thg anyone’s ever said to me—but at least ’s so crazy that I n e .’ ” On “Please Like Me,” which he played a gay twentysomethg also named Josh, he rtaged the breakup almost word for word.</p><p class="paywall">As wh many ntemporary edians, mg unpleasant experienc for humor—even tragic on—is send nature to Thomas. On “Please Like Me,” the most strikg element taken om his personal history is the first suici attempt of his mother, Rebec, who was subsequently given a diagnosis of bipolar disorr. In the pilot, Thomas re-creat the experience: Josh wak up late the followg morng to a slew of voice mails om his father, which he listens to reverse chronologil orr, wh mountg panic. His mother, named Rose the show, surviv, but the hospal won’t release her unls she has someone to watch over her. Josh’s parents are divorced, so he mov . As Rose ntends wh her mental illns, Josh begs to e to terms wh his sexualy.</p><div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--article-mid-ntent" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--article-mid-ntent nsumer-marketg-un__slot---ntent"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><p class="paywall">As Thomas observ “Whoopsie Daisy,” fictnal characters nonted wh bad news tend to “really quickly unrstand the emotnal ramifitns, and then show all the emotns on their face.” He go on, “I don’t do that. I ually feel a b startled and, hontly, a b embarrassed I’m not behavg the way I thk I should, bee of televisn.” On Thomas’s shows, trmatic events aren’t cleanly procsed. Characters routely stumble and regrs; there are no tidy “arcs.” Acrdg to Thomas’s longtime iend Tom Ward, who appeared on “Please Like Me” and has wrten for both shows, Thomas so dislik s clichés that he leans on people around him to supply thentilly awkward material. “We had an unspoken agreement that honty was the bt way to create work,” Ward said. “It was a gift when somethg terrible happened to one of .” He scribed enterg the wrers’ room for “Please Like Me” and announcg, wh a sigh, that over the weekend an ex-girliend’s rabb had died his re. Inevably, the cint was rporated to a script. Thomas told me, “It’s nice when bad thgs happen and there’s a ltle ray of sunshe—like, ‘Oh, I’m gonna get somethg out of this.’ ”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">Thomas, who grew up Brisbane, began performg at edy venu high school. At seventeen, he won the open-mike petn at the Melbourne Internatnal Comedy Ftival. Wh a few years on the standup circu, he had risen to natnal promence, but started to feel the limatns of the form. In a monologue, he uld prent only one si of a story, and nfsnal anecdot had to be fanged to keep the dience on his si. “That really annoyed me—havg to be cute, and that gettg the way of honty,” he said. He began velopg “Please Like Me” nsultatn wh the Atralian Broadstg Corporatn, which eventually missned a first season.</p><p class="paywall">By then, he was his early twenti, and jt begng to acknowledge the fact that he was gay. As part of this reckong, Thomas rewrote the pilot of “Please Like Me,” changg the sexualy of his character—and the work found self posssn of a s wh a gay lead. In an early episo, Josh plas that the g-out rual feels “so neti,” and Thomas, his own life, took the most perfunctory approach possible. He texted his dad, “When do your flight get tomorrow? Also I live wh my boyiend. See ya!”</p><p class="paywall">When “Please Like Me” first aired, 2013, was rehgly unncerned wh the rpectabily polics of the moment. While Cam and Mch were embodyg sexls, jt-like-you domticy on “Morn Fay,” Josh was meetg guys on Grdr and experimentg wh non-monogamy. The show’s lennial-tr-as-star format, meanwhile, drew parisons to <a href=">Lena Dunham</a>’s “<a href=">Girls</a>.” Like Hannah Horvath, Josh was a more flawed versn of his creator, prone to impulsive and selfish behavr. He left his mother the re of her elrly, irascible nt so that he uld go on a date; after a iend ate his tffle mac and chee, he barrid him his room—and turned off the Wi-Fi. Ultimately, though, the show’s tone was fivg: y, Josh uld be a jerk, but so uld everybody. “The superpower I had wh ‘Please Like Me’ is that the gay person was based on me,” Thomas told me. “I didn’t have to really jtify anythg. I uld jt be, like, ‘Yeah, this is what <em>I</em> do,’ and no one uld really challenge me.”</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-1 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">Thomas’s onscreen persona, a stunt whose ma passn was okg elaborate meals, was gentler than that of <a href=">Larry David</a>, whose character on “<a href=">Curb Your Enthiasm</a>” revelled oversteppg social boundari that Josh seemed not to regnize at all. Larry antagonized people on purpose; Josh was largely an accintal offenr. And though the protagonist of “Please Like Me” was self-centered, the show was a mol of empathy. As Josh spun his wheels profsnally and romantilly, other characters were given ample room to have dramas of their own.</p><p class="paywall">Partway through the seri, a manic episo led Rose to enter a psychiatric clic, and the show turned much of s foc to the people receivg treatment there. The characters grappled wh everythg om panic attacks to self-harm, and for many viewers the show’s ndid treatment of mental health was a revelatn. To portray the patients’ liv nvcgly, Thomas cid, rearch was required. “My own personal experience didn’t make me an expert,” he explaed. “I didn’t really know what was gog on for my mum. We were kd of too awkward to talk about .” He toured a clic Melbourne and nsulted a psychiatrist there. Thomas relled “an awful day where he ran me through all the ways people have killed themselv the hospal, spe of all the measur that they take.” In a nversatn wh another expert, Thomas’s tert a romantic subplot for one of the patients spired him to ask, “When people have sex the hospal, where do they do ?” (The answer: the disabled toilets.)</p><p class="paywall">Some of the characters beme more stable, but, late the seri, one died by suici, leavg behd a note whose ntents were never shared onscreen. Thomas told me, “I didn’t show the note bee would have created this moment that, to a lot of people, would’ve looked que <em>attractive</em>. Instead, we jt show her ld rpse a mue on a stals-steel bench. Bee that’s the realy of the cisn she ma.” He psed. “The real reason why I was thkg about more strongly than most people is—my mum’s gonna watch that scene. I don’t want her stg there watchg some fantasy. I don’t want to look attractive <em>to her</em>.”</p><div class="Contaer-bkChBi byNLHx"></div><p class="paywall">Thomas hadn’t blamed his mother for attemptg suici, but neher had he nsired the thkg behd . “My attu was always ‘It’s mental illns,’ ” he said. “Tryg to fd logic her actns—I always thought was uls.” He learned om experts that suicidal people often believe that they’ll be “dog everyone a favor” by eeg their loved on om the burn of re. Thomas told me, “I absolutely knew, when I heard , that <em>that’s</em> what was gog on my mum’s head.” He wrote an episo which Josh’s mother mak such a nfsn (after sistg that he smoke weed wh her). He said, “Wrg helped me unrstand my mum better, actually. My character got to grow, and I gus I grew as well—but my character kd of led me to do .”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">In June, 2018, Thomas walked onto the <a href=">Disney</a> lot, Burbank, to lay out his plans for a new seri, “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay.” He and Stephanie Swedlove, a Canadian producer who’d worked on “Please Like Me,” were meetg wh executiv at Disney’s Freeform, a channel known for socially nsc programmg. As Swedlove acknowledged, “The log l of Josh’s shows don’t <em>immediately</em> scream edy.” At the meetg, Thomas unveiled the show’s first episo, which a middle-aged man di, of pancreatic ncer, a suburb of Los Angel, and his son—Thomas’s character, a nrotic young entomologist visg om Atralia—mov to assume re of two half siblgs, one of whom is on the tism spectm. Thomas, aware that he might e off as an enemy of fun, nclud his prentatn by shootg a nfetti nnon. He end up on his hands and kne the meetg room, pickg up lorful scraps of paper.</p><p class="paywall">“Freeform was really chill,” Thomas told me. “They wanted to be queer, they wanted to be progrsive—that’s their whole shtick.” He joked, “It’s, like, ‘Well, you’re gay, so that’ll be <em>noble</em>.’ ” Immediately, he tted the lims of his mandate, by fightg for the right to say “faggot” onscreen. Thomas’s character, Nicholas, reunts a fight wh his sister Genevieve, who ed the slur agast him as a young child whout unrstandg s meang. Genevieve, now a teen-ager, is mortified by the anecdote; Nicholas is simply amed. It’s a moment one n easily image playg out between siblgs real life, but executiv were sktish, and sisted on nng the scene by <em class="small">GLAAD</em>, the L.G.B.T.Q. media watchdog.</p><p class="paywall">“I was, like, ‘Why are <em class="small">GLAAD</em> better thori on homosexualy than I am?’ ” he told me. He relled rmg Freeform executiv, “I am a <em>top-tier</em> homosexual. They’re not <em>more gay</em> than me.” Fortunately, <em class="small">GLAAD</em> signed off, so Thomas didn’t have to battle the work. “I do thk was the first time anythg Disney had ever ed the word ‘faggot,’ which I’m really proud of.”</p><p class="paywall">In a more ser tone, he said, “I’ve had guys kick me the head and ll me a faggot—I know how paful that word is. But, by beg so sred of , you add power to . You give them a tool.” He grned nspiratorially. “Also, hontly, I jt thought was a funny story—and I will fd a socially nsc reason to jtify somethg that I thk is funny to the end of days.”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">Havg created twentysomethg and middle-aged characters for “Please Like Me,” Thomas took on a new mographic for “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay.” He cid that a st filled wh teens would, among other thgs, settle “all our cisns about tone.” Whereas Josh uld mostly get away wh dancg around his feelgs, Nicholas, as the guardian of two teen-agers, <em>had</em> to learn to munite, particularly wh Matilda, a high-functng tistic girl who has eply held nvictns about what a high-school experience should entail—the hoe parti, boyiends, and unrage drkg promised by pop culture.</p><p class="paywall">“Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay” is the first Amerin show to feature an tistic lead played by an tistic actor. Nrotypil girls had read for Matilda, but, Thomas said, they all slipped to a “sort of robot voice.” After meetg Kayla Cromer on the first day of dns—and seeg her give a spired, exprsive performance—Thomas knew she was right for the role. Matilda is open about her tism, direct about her sir, and nfint her talent as a buddg poser. Eager for romance and timacy but unsure how to secure them, she nsults YouTube for advice on flirtatn, emergg wh a patchwork of ias that are half old-fashned, half avant-gar. After tryg alhol for the first time, she nclus a msage to her csh wh a cheerful sign-off: “Thgs are gettg l. Bt of wish!”</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-2 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">Matilda’s difficulty unrstandg unspoken l and social cu heightens the challeng of beg a teen-ager. Her schoolg is overseen by a special-tn teacher, who utns that Matilda’s dream of livg alone New York Cy probably isn’t attaable, and criciz Nicholas for failg to prepare her for such limatns. Nicholas, meanwhile, is btally ank ways that leave him on equally unstable footg: he disncerts his siblgs by tellg them that he’s not “the bt tch” as guardians go, and horrifi his sweet-tempered boyiend, Alex, wh the revelatn that there are moments when he don’t love him. “I thk that’s normal!” Nicholas sists. “I jt thk other people are better at lyg about .” Though he is ed ill-prepared to be an thory figure, his unorthodox approach sometim succeeds where more nventnal methods might fail. As Matilda begs assertg her pennce, and Nicholas grows to his rponsibili, the central tensn between them be what Thomas lls “a universal tth to parentg: how much do you step and stop your kid om makg mistak, and how much do you let them learn for themselv?”</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><asi class="PersistentAsiWrapper-VGrR daRVRt persistent-asi" style="posn:absolute;top:to;height:to" data-ttid="PersistentAsiWrapper"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="wmr07"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></asi></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="mz2zgp"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall">Thomas sists that the show is not “a blanket ment on tism—’s supposed to be the very specific characters.” He’s nsc of the awkward broadns of the “tism spectm” label, which enpass both people like Matilda, who n pick up untuive social skills wh practice, and those who may never learn to speak more than a few words, and require extensive, lifelong support. Even among the paratively high-functng teens featured the seri, the ndn manifts distct ways. “We wanted to show that they’re all pretty different,” Thomas said.</p><p class="paywall">As he veloped plots for Matilda and her iends, Drea and Jeremy, Thomas terviewed people on the spectm. He would prent a scenar for a character, askg, “Do you believe that?” For the first season, he furnished nrodiversy nsultants wh tailed scriptns of the tr, double-checkg his unrstandg of such tras as Matilda’s tenncy toward sensory overload and Drea’s <a data-offer-url=" class="external-lk" data-event-click="{"element":"ExternalLk","outgogURL":"" href=" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">hyposensivy</a> to touch. By the send season, the procs was ma easier by the fact that several advisers had bee fans of the show. “They’ll be, like, ‘I don’t thk <em>Matilda</em> would do this,’ ” he said. “They have a sense of who she is.”</p><p class="paywall">At table reads and on set, Thomas was attentive to suggtns om stmat like Cromer and Lillian Carrier, who is also on the spectm. Although he’d chafed at mentary around the gay characters on “Please Like Me” which had treated them as if they were part of a P.R. mpaign for the L.G.B.T.Q. muny, the experience had alerted him to the stak of reprentatn for more margalized groups. “One of the central thgs that advot the nrodiversy space want is for people to have an unrstandg that not everyone is teractg wh the world the same way,” he said. “They’re jt askg people to be more fivg of the fact that different people are gog to unrstand thgs differently, and different people are gog to make different kds of mistak. Which is a really nice thg to take on board <em>outsi</em> of tism or nrodiversy, I thk.”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">Shortly after our night out the Wt Village, Thomas returned to L.A. for what would be his fal performance of “Whoopsie Daisy” before the cy went to lockdown. He ncelled a flight to Atralia, and sequtered himself Lrel Canyon wh his dog John and a new puppy, named Bilby. “Quarante kd of snap-oze everyone’s liv,” he told me over Zoom, as Bilby dozed his lap. “If you went wh some trma, or some grief, or not a happy place, then you got stuck . But I was que happy when oze.” “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay” had been well received, and he’d ma some iends L.A.</p><p class="paywall">Amid this relative lm, he found time to addrs somethg that had begun to nag at him. When people had asked Thomas why he was so terted tism, he had often ced the 2015 documentary “<a href=">Autism Love</a>,” which follows four people on the spectm at var stag their liv and relatnships: a boy attemptg to date after a paful breakup; a uple ntemplatg marriage but still workg to rencile “particular rout and rigidi”; a man whose wife of twenty years is termally ill. Thomas had never seen the emotnal liv of people wh tism taken so serly, and now that he had astonished him that the “Ra Man” stereotype of the exprsive savant still domated pop culture. He lled up Swedlove and asked, “How <em>didn’t</em> I know this?” He spoke to her about the documentary subjects’ obv pth of feelg, and said that their ankns about their needs and sir had moved him. Thomas believed that the skills he’d honed through “Please Like Me” might equip him to tell such a story himself.</p><figure class="AssetEmbedWrapper-eVDQiB byBkf asset-embed"><div class="AssetEmbedAssetContaer-eJxoAx dBHGoQ asset-embed__asset-ntaer"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kKwZhx rponsive-asset AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset"><div data-attr-viewport-monor="" class="RponsiveCartoonWrapper-iTMMjI eXTYsS rponsive-rtoon AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset viewport-monor-anchor"><a class="external-lk rponsive-rtoon__image-lk" data-event-click="{"element":"ExternalLk","outgogURL":"" href=" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa RponsiveCartoonImage-hzNqyc ikeCcH rponsive-rtoon__image rponsive-image"><noscript><img alt="Two ln cubs watch their fay eat prey." class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src=" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w, 960w, 1280w, 1600w" siz="100vw"/></noscript></picture></a><div class="CaptnWrapper-jSZdqE gdZTpI ptn RponsiveCartoonCaptn-dokfdF hJgaLQ rponsive-rtoon__ptn"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnText-bHjzlu iUEiRd hWyo bsWloa ptn__text">“It’s not waffl. It’s never waffl.”</span></div><div class="CaptnWrapper-jSZdqE iTuhkZ ptn RponsiveCartoonCred-bKlQqO faLAFb rponsive-rtoon__cred"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnCred-ejegDm iUEiRd iicloT bmQtfn ptn__cred">Cartoon by David Borchart</span></div><div class="RponsiveCartoonCTA-eiqqMB iDCQRs"><div class="RponsiveCartoonCTAWrapper-CYIqa iTbFtf"><div class="RponsiveCartoonLkButtonWrapper-hqDAJK eSEhbj"><button aria-label="Copy lk to rtoon" class="BaseButton-bLlsy ButtonWrapper-xCepQ bqVKKv YsOBB button button--primary-pair RponsiveCartoonInButton-hBCBMq lpsjql" data-event-click="{"element":"Button"}" data-ttid="Button" type="button"><span class="ButtonLabel-cjAuJN bBWXSg button__label">Copy lk to rtoon</span><div class="ButtonInWrapper-gFdzAL bPDyTT button__in-ntaer"><svg class="in in-pylk" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="><tle>Copy lk to rtoon</tle><g clip-path="url(#clip0_3732_178637)"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M16.3488 10.5017C16.2107 10.7357 16.2926 11.035 16.5318 11.17C16.7709 11.3052 17.0767 11.225 17.2148 10.991L18.4648 8.87225C19.5694 7.00002 18.9139 4.60601 17.0007 3.52508C15.0875 2.44415 12.6412 3.08562 11.5366 4.95785L9.53657 8.34782C8.432 10.22 9.08751 12.6141 11.0007 13.6949C11.1888 13.8012 11.382 13.8908 11.5785 13.9642C11.7819 14.0403 12.0058 13.9485 12.1147 13.764C12.2794 13.4849 12.1103 13.1276 11.8083 12.9992C11.7041 12.9549 11.6014 12.9044 11.5007 12.8475C10.0658 12.0368 9.57417 10.2413 10.4026 8.83712L12.4026 5.44715C13.2311 4.04298 15.0658 3.56187 16.5007 4.37257C17.9356 5.18327 18.4272 6.97878 17.5988 8.38295L16.3488 10.5017ZM7.6526 13.4983C7.79067 13.2643 7.70873 12.965 7.46959 12.8299C7.23044 12.6948 6.92464 12.775 6.78657 13.009L5.53657 15.1278C4.432 17 5.0875 19.394 7.00068 20.475C8.91385 21.5558 11.3602 20.9144 12.4648 19.0422L14.4648 15.6521C15.5694 13.78 14.9139 11.3859 13.0007 10.305C12.8127 10.1988 12.6195 10.1091 12.4229 10.0357C12.2195 9.95975 11.9956 10.0515 11.8867 10.236C11.7221 10.5151 11.8911 10.8724 12.1932 11.0008C12.2973 11.0451 12.4 11.0956 12.5007 11.1525C13.9356 11.9632 14.4272 13.7587 13.5988 15.1628L11.5988 18.5529C10.7704 19.957 8.93555 20.4382 7.50068 19.6274C6.0658 18.8167 5.57417 17.0212 6.4026 15.6171L7.6526 13.4983Z" fill="black"></path></g><fs><clipPath id="clip0_3732_178637"><rect width="24" height="24" fill="whe"></rect></clipPath><clipPath id="clip1_3732_178637"><rect width="24" height="24" fill="whe"></rect></clipPath></fs></svg></div></button><div class="AlertWrapper-gvFATk MdjE RponsiveCartoonLkAlertPopup-BPAXn kdMXRM shoppg-alert" role="dialog"><div aria-hidn="te" role="prentatn" class="AlertArrow-daOgye AlLda alert-arrow"></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ AlertMsage-jgAjgo bVCFRm ifgabc cxFROy alert-msage"><p aria-hidn="te">Lk pied</p></div></div></div><button aria-label="Shop" class="BaseButton-bLlsy ButtonWrapper-xCepQ bqVKKv YsOBB button button--primary-pair RponsiveCartoonInButton-hBCBMq lpsjql" data-event-click="{"element":"Button"}" data-ttid="Button" type="button"><span class="ButtonLabel-cjAuJN bBWXSg button__label">Shop</span><div class="ButtonInWrapper-gFdzAL bPDyTT button__in-ntaer"><svg class="in in-rt" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" xmlns="><tle>Shop</tle><g clip-path="url(#clip0_3732_178638)"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M4 3H2V4H4.23828L6.99617 15.2631C7.11483 15.6982 7.50998 16 7.96094 16H18.0365C18.4875 16 18.8826 15.6982 19.0013 15.2631L20.9648 7.26312C21.1383 6.62698 20.6594 6 20 6H10V7H20L18.0365 15H7.96094L5.03652 3H4.58055H4ZM10.0365 19C10.0365 19.5523 9.58881 20 9.03652 20C8.48424 20 8.03652 19.5523 8.03652 19C8.03652 18.4477 8.48424 18 9.03652 18C9.58881 18 10.0365 18.4477 10.0365 19ZM11.0365 19C11.0365 20.1046 10.1411 21 9.03652 21C7.93195 21 7.03652 20.1046 7.03652 19C7.03652 17.8954 7.93195 17 9.03652 17C10.1411 17 11.0365 17.8954 11.0365 19ZM18.0365 19C18.0365 19.5523 17.5888 20 17.0365 20C16.4842 20 16.0365 19.5523 16.0365 19C16.0365 18.4477 16.4842 18 17.0365 18C17.5888 18 18.0365 18.4477 18.0365 19ZM19.0365 19C19.0365 20.1046 18.1411 21 17.0365 21C15.932 21 15.0365 20.1046 15.0365 19C15.0365 17.8954 15.932 17 17.0365 17C18.1411 17 19.0365 17.8954 19.0365 19Z" fill="black"></path></g><fs><clipPath id="clip0_3732_178638"><rect width="24" height="24" fill="whe"></rect></clipPath><clipPath id="clip1_3732_178638"><rect width="24" height="24" fill="whe"></rect></clipPath></fs></svg></div></button></div></div></div></span></div></figure><p class="paywall">As he worked on “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay,” he began to wonr whether there was more to his sense of kship. Years earlier, a psychiatrist had warned him about his “social dysfunctn” and equent oblivns of the wants of others. (He later reunted the experience a standup set: “Basilly, I give this lady a hundred and eighty dollars, she ss me down, she tells me I’m a cunt, and she follows up wh ‘It’s curable.’ ”) Though he didn’t exhib some tras strongly associated wh boys on the spectm—patterns and numbers held no appeal—his rearch for the seri lent other quirks new ronance. “If you mentn tism to someone, they have a pretty specific image of a pretty specific type of person, and I don’t thk I f that,” he told me recently. But some of the stori reunted by people he’d terviewed felt surprisgly faiar. And, as Season 1 aired, Thomas had noticed that, among fans—many of whom are on the spectm themselv—there was “a <em>lot</em> of chatter about Nicholas beg tistic.” They’d been speculatg on Twter sce the show’s January première episo, which Nicholas be so overwhelmed by the news of his father’s ncer that he leav the room and ref to engage. As the season progrsed, Nicholas’s behavr strengthened viewers’ imprsns.</p><p class="paywall">That sprg, Thomas cid to nsult a psychiatrist, but he was unable to secure a referral durg lockdown, so he turned to a seri of self-asssments on the Inter. “It’s not like a BuzzFeed quiz,” he assured me. “It’s not, like, ‘What Kd of Shortbread Are You?’ ” He also shared his spicns wh Swedlove and his iend Tom Ward. When, a few months later, Thomas mentned to the other wrers that he might be on the spectm, was uched terms of a possible story le for his alter ego. Thomas promised that he wouldn’t give Nicholas such a diagnosis “unls I nfirm that <em>I’m</em> actually tistic.”</p><p class="paywall">Ward relled, “We jt discsed the way we would any story topic, which is, like, ‘What’s realistic? Let’s draw on your experience, bee you’re the person who’s gog through this.’ ” By this pot, Thomas had taken a battery of more formal diagnostic tts—cludg those, like the empathy quotient, which are often ed clil ntexts. But the onle quizz had been the first step. As the wrers weighed how bt to approach such a story le, Thomas cid that they should know what the qutnnair entailed.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-3 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">In a Zoom meetg, he clicked through a seri of statements, markg his rpons on a sle om “Defely Agree” to “Defely Disagree.” Though the tt was nomally for Nicholas, quickly beme an exercise leatg how Thomas pared wh others on the ll. Some of the prompts, like “I don’t have any problems makg small talk wh new people,” felt unhelpful. “Don’t everybody hate small talk?” Thomas asked the group. Others seemed eerily apt. When the wrers reached the statement “I would fd really hard to play imagary gam wh children,” Thomas admted that he had failed miserably at this when meetg Ward’s son, Teddy. Ward, lghg, relled, “Teddy mimed pourg Josh a cup of tea, and, unr the prsure of the expectatn om my one-year-old to turn mime <em>drkg</em> the tea, he cmbled. He hated a way that really nfed my son.”</p><p class="paywall">A few slis later, a rult flashed onscreen: “Your sre suggts you experience <em>many or all</em> of the most mon tras experienced by those wh an tism-spectm disorr.”</p><p class="paywall">Around this time, Thomas broached the subject wh one of the seri’ tism nsultants. “When you watch the show, do you thk maybe Nicholas is tistic?” he asked.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="8dlmmb"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall">Carefully, she rpond, “Yeah—I thk there’s probably somethg there.”</p><p class="paywall">“Do you thk <em>I’m</em> tistic?”</p><p class="paywall">She psed, then said, “I’ll help you get an evaluatn.”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">When Thomas is workg wh wrers on scripts, his emphasis is on emotn, not beats. “Plot stcture feels like a lie,” he said, addg that he had ltle tert a seri “where you know there’s a grand romantic gture g at the seventeen-mute mark.” (This skepticism extends to overly rosy relatnship dynamics more generally. When a viewer asked, on Instagram, if he was terted showg “posive nonmonogamy on tv,” notg that “Please Like Me” had been “middlg that regard,” Thomas replied, “I don’t really want to see a ‘posive’ anythg story. Non-monogamy <em>is</em> actually middlg, the same way monogamy is. Fe!”) At another Zoom meetg for Season 2, his foc was on balancg earnt exploratn and humor. As staffers outled each episo, he flagged stretch that felt “th on high jks.”</p><p class="paywall">Te to form, Thomas phed for ls flatterg moments—even for otherwise “good,” well-liked characters. When the wrers sketched out a lovers’ spat between Nicholas and Alex— which an argument over watery spaghetti Bologne abptly turns more ser—Thomas remd the others that, at this stage the season, Nicholas has ma many missteps. To avoid alienatg viewers om him pletely, the scene need to emphasize “that we thk Alex is <em>also</em> beg unfair.”</p><p class="paywall">A producer, Marissa Berl, suggted that Alex make a joke wh a sour unrtone, to lend a “subtle, nuanced, passive-aggrsive celty” to the fight’s rolutn. Thomas went further. “I don’t know what we have to lose,” he med, by makg Alex “a b terrible that scene.” No one rpond. “Everyone looks like they hate !” he said.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-4 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">Ward hedged: “As long as ’s not, like, so out of character that don’t make sense.”</p><p class="paywall">“No one’s <em>ever</em> on my si!” Thomas said, mock-dignant.</p><p class="paywall">Thomas told me that he wanted the dience’s affectns for each character to ebb and flow. This philosophy had also unrgird “Please Like Me.” Years ago, a fan submted a qutn to Thomas’s blog, askg whether he was “supposed to hate” Ward’s character. Thomas rpond, “I thk if we’ve ma the characters real enough you should hate them sometim and love them sometim.”</p><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg paywall">Thomas’s realizatn that he is on the tism spectm has helped him ppot what appealed to him about edy the first place. At a time when he was ls nfint his nversatnal abili, standup allowed him to exprs himself: “I uld plan what I wanted to say, and then would go the way that I wanted to go, and people uld see that I was tertg.” Scripted televisn afford even greater ntrol. “I n, word by word and ame by ame, go and ntrol the meang and tent of what I’m tryg to say,” Thomas said. “I n be better unrstood that way than on-the-fly social teractn.”</p><p class="paywall">He recently rewatched “Please Like Me,” and was stck by what he saw as retrospective evince of his ndn: “As far as a show about an undiagnosed tistic person go, is <em>mt</em>.” Countls episos centered on Josh’s abily to discs his emotns, and on his clumss rpondg to others. Thomas emerged wh a epened appreciatn for why he’d so often scribed the seri as one which “I get up and try to get through the day whout hurtg anyone’s feelgs.”</p><p class="paywall">Ward told me that Thomas’s diagnosis has been clarifyg for him, too. “Josh begs, like, sixty per cent of nversatns wh ‘I jt don’t <em>unrstand</em> why . . .’ And I always thought that’s how he joked,” he said. “But now I thk he genuely didn’t unrstand why people did the thgs that they do, or why people adhered to the social norms that ma no sense to him.”</p><p class="paywall">Season 2 of “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay” wrapped productn on January 25th, after eleven weeks of filmg unr quarante strictur. When Thomas and I spoke later that week, he had jt begun reviewg footage om the first day of shootg. His mandate, he’d disvered, was to ed out the existential dread. “You really see all the actors’ ey, cludg me, jt how bewilred and sred everyone is!” he said, lghg. “We’re startg all our sentenc happy, but then, by the end of the sentence, no one’s sg.”</p><p class="paywall">The show’s small st and crew had been tted for <em class="small">COVID</em>-19 three tim a week, then five, and managed to avoid the shutdowns that had plagued other sets. Many shownners worked remotely durg the panmic, but Thomas’s actg role required him to be on set. To bolster everyone’s spirs, he iated spontaneo dance parti. He also told Cromer and Carrier that, September, a clil psychologist had nfirmed that he, too, was on the tism spectm.</p><p class="paywall">Cromer, who plays Matilda, took the disclosure stri. “She didn’t re,” Thomas said, cheerfully. “This label is <em>so</em> broad that you n talk to an tistic person and say that you’re tistic, but your experience of tism is gog to be so different to their experience of tism. Like, Kayla don’t unrstand sarsm—she’s learng how to unrstand sarsm. It n be tratg for her, bee I’m <em>very</em> sarstic, and I’m makg jok all the time. You’re kd of, like, ‘O.K., you’ve got this thg that I have, but also you don’t.’ It’s different.”</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-5 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">Thomas’s psychologist had prented the rults of his evaluatn ggerly, as though he were wag, Thomas said, for “some <em>reactn</em>”—the sort of sudn revelatn or vehement nial that you might see on TV. To Thomas, the diagnosis felt ls like a thunrbolt than like a quiet nfirmatn. The s of smaller revelatns leadg up to that pot—and the way he’d begun to relibrate his relatnships acrdgly—“beme what was tertg, and what had emotnal weight.” This more fful narrative, Thomas cid, would bee Nicholas’s story on “Everythg’s Gonna Be Okay.” His seri, and his life, would follow the same meanrg path. “This is about me unrstandg why I am the way I am,” he told me. “And ’s about tryg to figure out how I n make the world f wh how I’m gog to be.” ♦</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="5q70cc"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot 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brYtrA grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="body body__ntaer"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"></div></div></div></div></div></div></article><div class="ContentFooterWrapper-jVNdRG dTJkpP ArticlePageContentFooterGrid-ccsXYy eMZRHU article-body__footer"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><footer class="ContentFooterMagazeDisclaimer-gzKAqo iZIuUU" data-ttid="MagazeDisclaimerWrapper">Published the prt edn of the <a href="/magaze/2021/04/12" data-reactroot="">April 12, 2021</a>, issue, wh the headle “This Isn’t a Joke.”</footer></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="ContributorsWrapper-eNpWFu GWFsc ntributors" data-ttid="Contributors"><div class="ContributorBWrapper-bnVHbt gMon"><div class="ContributorBContent-ubQdr jZTSSi"><div class="ContributorBHear-ledood XOIEx"></div><div class="ContributorBB-fBolsO giFhKz"><a href="/ntributors/alex-barasch">Alex Barasch</a> is a member of The New Yorker’s edorial staff.</div><div class="ContributorBFooter-brqDlv ezUmSv"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div data-ttid="TagCloudWrapper" class="TagCloudWrapper-gGgndx ctyZyK ContentFooterTagCloud-krQmRG ZLGh"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd 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summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Ang Cloud’s Ey Said It All" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl bcywvc summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Postscript</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">Ang Cloud’s Ey Said It All</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Ang Cloud’s Ey Said It All" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">Wh his limpid gaze and profound stillns, the “Euphoria” star nveyed the soul of a man trapped by circumstance.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Naomi Fry</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff ewgXAt summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm eamwqR" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Why Emma Seligman Decid to Make a Movie About a Queer Fight Club" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl bcywvc summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">The New Yorker Interview</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">Why Emma Seligman Decid to Make a Movie About a Queer Fight Club</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Why Emma Seligman Decid to Make a Movie About a Queer Fight Club" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">The director of “Shiva Baby” and “Bottoms” on di, male validatn, third-wave femism, and whether you need to be a dick to be succsful.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Naomi Fry</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff ewgXAt summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm eamwqR" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Failure Résumé" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl bcywvc summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Shouts & Murmurs</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">Failure Résumé</div></a><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Aparna Nancherla</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff ewgXAt summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm eamwqR" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="The Unapologetic Brilliance of Séad O’Connor" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl bcywvc summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Postscript</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">The Unapologetic Brilliance of Séad O’Connor</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="The Unapologetic Brilliance of Séad O’Connor" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">I thk what O’Connor sought her mic was 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