bars</tle><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1vd04" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->24:01</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->24:01</div></div></div></div></hear><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxyw"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-9wqu2x">Some Said Lil Nas X Was a One-H Wonr. They Were Wrong.</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">He’s lap dancg on the vil, wng the ter — and refg what a pop star n be.</h4><time dateTime="2021-08-25T12:42:09.000Z" class="css-1e605">2021-08-25T08:42:09-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hi, Jasme.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hello, Dodai Stewart.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How are you?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So happy to be talkg to you today, girl. How are you?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I’m dog well. I really want to talk to you about this amazg profile of Lil Nas X that you wrote.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Dodai, I have jt stopped dreamg about Lil Nas X, and now you’re tryg to brg him back to my life. Thank you.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[mic - lil nas x, "old town road"]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From The New York Tim, I’m Dodai Stewart. And Lil Nas X, even if he’s not your dreams, he’s fely been everywhere.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Yeah, I’m gog to take my horse to the old town road. I’m gog to ri —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sce his 2019 h “Old Town Road,” he returned this year wh not jt one —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Call me when you want. Call me when you need. Call me the morng. I’ll be on the way.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— but two songs that have provid the soundtrack of the summer.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I told you long ago on the road, I got what they wag for.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">My lleague Jazme Hugh is a wrer for the Magaze. And she spent time wh Lil Nas X right before the songs dropped. She says he’s dog somethg entirely new.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ve seen queer artists before, but what Nas is dog is to put his sexualy ont and center of his pop star inty the way that straight people do every sgle day whout thkg a lot about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She walked me through his entire life, om his childhood Atlanta to his teen years on Twter, to where we are today. OK, we’re here to talk bee you got to terview Lil Nas X.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So his name is Montero Lamar Hill, which is like the sexit name I’ve ever heard. He sounds like he should be a gut star a UPN show the ‘90s, right?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">See, I was gog to say he sounds like he’s the Black guy on “Young and the Rtls.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS] Right, but there’s a vibe. When you hear the name Montero Lamar Hill, you’re like, ooh, thgs are about to get —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m like, oh, that’s the Black guy on “Young and the Rtls.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— sexy. Oh-ow! [LAUGHS]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s a good name. It’s a really good name.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">His mom really wanted a Msubishi Montero. She uldn’t get , so she named her kid after that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so tell me more. Where did he grow up?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He grew up outsi of Atlanta a neighborhood lled Bankhead. He grew up kd of shuttlg back and forth between his two parents. His mother and his grandmother were Bankhead Courts, which was a pretty grim public hog project si Atlanta. And he stayed there until middle school thereabouts. And he had four siblgs there. And they really didn’t have any money.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And unfortunately, their mother started to display signs of stggl wh addictn. But their grandmother was really like the lchp foundatn of their liv. And so I thk they had her steady hand, and they had each other. And talkg to Nas and to one of his brothers, Lamar, about their childhood, jt sounds like they were havg a blast all the time.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like what? Would they do?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He and his brother would fd old half-filled pat ns and try to sell them and make a uple of bucks. They would have the sgg and dancg shows that they would choreograph themselv and put on shows for their iends and fay.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I love .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So when Nas was middle school, I want to say, there was this extend ctody battle between his parents. And Nas ends up movg wh his dad to a suburb jt outsi of Atlanta, which was like, at this pot, the worst thg that had ever happened to him. He really didn’t want to go. He wanted to stay wh his siblgs, and he wanted to stay wh his grandmother. But he begdggly mak this move wh his dad.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The thg about Nas’s dad is that he is a gospel sger, and he’s very active his church. So church beme a big part of Nas’s life around the same time. He gets really sullen and really solent and sort of classic teenager sh. And he’s startg to realize that he’s gay. Thoughts and csh on boys are really startg to lcify to an inty. And bee he was born 1999, a number that mak even me feel old, he spent a lot of time on the ter.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So he told me that there were two major channels his adolcence that helped him figure out who he was. One was this Ntendo mrr thgamabob that he won at a school ntt. So he would rerd thgs and try to make ntent for the first time. He started to really dabble ter ntent creatn, where, sentially, he would steal photos or jok or thgs that other people created and refashn and repackage them to have them go viral on his own acunt so then he n amass followers and attentn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And what was the send channel?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The send channel was Nicki Maj.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[mic - nicki maj, "feelg myself"]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (nicki maj)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Yo, B. They ready?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And when he disvered Nicki Maj, that man’s life changed forever.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (nicki maj)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I’m wh some hood girls, lookg back at , and a good girl my tax bracket.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s a barb, right?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He is a barb.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And n we jt say what a barb is for people who might not know?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A barb — my iend scribed barbs to me as evil nerds who act on behalf of Nicki Maj. Barbs are die-hard fans of Nicki Maj the way that pop stars have the legns of stans who would probably enact war on their behalf.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, and this is where Nas begs learng how to e the ter to his own advantage. Bee when you’re the fandoms, your mo of operatn and your currency and the way that you munite is all mem back and forth and -jok, and tweetg and buildg on tweets and thgs that would bee really important for his reer.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I thk that Nas is bilgual, right? He’s a native English speaker, but he also speaks the ter. He figured out at a pretty early age how to make somethg go viral on the ter. And so, mak sense, I thk, that he was able to e out of nowhere and create the hugt song.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Take my horse to the Old Town Road, I’m gog to ri till I n’t no more.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so this song was huge: “Old Town Road.” This is the thg that lnch him to all of our liv everywhere. And he do that by g everythg he’s learned om his life on the ter. So talk to me about how he got this song out there the first place.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the months leadg up to “Old Town Road,” Nas had been tryg to tly make a mic reer for himself. So he had put out maybe a dozen songs on his SoundCloud. And he noticed that there was this emergg meme genre of vaguely untry adjacent thgs that also had roots the Black muny. I thk at some pot, started beg lled the yeehaw agenda. But —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, the yeehaw agenda.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— wboys were really poppg off. And he had started to realize that if he uld attach his mic to the mem and tweets that he was already apt at makg go viral, people would evably be like, hey, what’s that song the background? So he bought a beat on YouTube for $30 and wrote a jokey yeehaw agenda song. He knew that he wanted jt l that uld stand on their own, l that were really funny, and started promotg on his SoundCloud, promoted on his Twter, but also jt started lugg the ter wh wboy adjacent mem. And then he did what I nsir the most brilliant promotn move of all, which is that he went on a Redd board that is dited to helpg people fd earworms.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, yeah!</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so he ma a post sayg, “Hey, what’s that song lled, ‘I’m gog to take my horse to the Old Town Road,’” so that someone would answer him and then he uld ially pop off a nversatn about a song that he ma. So he’s really a marketg geni and started to acce — pull together all the threads. And then the song found s way onto TikTok.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I am gog to ri till I n’t no more.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I got the hors the back —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You and I well know — and I thk you know than I do — that once somethg’s on TikTok, ’s huge. It’s there. It’s big. It’s amazg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) You n whip your Porsche. I been the valley.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I mean, that’s fely where I first saw , was on TikTok. And I mean, I thought was tchy, but even more tertg was jt all the ways that people were g to do rout to showse that they were Black people who wore wboy hats and wboy boots and had a ltle untry le dance them. And jt seemed very —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd"> was like a mutable kd of song that would f different suatns and that everybody had a take on.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Ri till I n’t no more. I got the hors the back. Horse tack is attached. Hat is matte black, got the boots that’s black to match.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk that popped off part bee of TikTok, but also bee, one, ’s like the world’s easit rap song to memorize.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I’m gog to take my horse to the Old Town Road.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Even children n be like, (SINGING) I’m gog to — even kids are sptg bars.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I got the hors the back. Horse tack is attached.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And also, the beat is really good. It’s such a fun song to dance to. And I remember that summer me out, one of my iends threw a party, played “Old Town Road” on the hour every hour.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But ’s fun.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It is fun.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s jt a fun, fun song.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) — to the Old Town Road. I’m gog to —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) — ri till I n’t no more.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I’m gog to take my horse to the Old Town Road. I’m gog to ri —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 4</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) — ri till I n’t no more. Got the hors the back.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What’s really tertg is that when was blowg up on TikTok and other plac, h the untry charts, which, as we know, are very whe. And then Billboard took off the untry chart. And I thk that actually ma even bigger bee then everyone was like, what is this song that got kicked off the untry chart? It had this extra ph of publicy by the fact that Billboard removed om the untry chart. And I know that they tried to say was bee wasn’t untry enough. But then there were people on social media sayg ’s bee he’s Black.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, there’s all this hubbub about whether or not “Old Town Road” is an thentic untry song, even though is a song about hors and Wrangler jeans and wboy hats.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is a law. If has a horse , ’s untry.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then he add Billy Ray Cys to the remix.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">God, what a flex. What a flex. And wasn’t even lculated. As “Old Time Road” begs to get some tractn, but still pretty early on the procs, Nas tweets like, guys, help me get Billy Ray Cys on this track. He knew about Billy Ray bee Nas watched a lot of “Hannah Montana,” which stars Miley Cys. And he felt as if he had wrten the real untry song, and he wanted a real untry legend on . And the ntroversy wh the Billboard Hot 100 hadn’t even happened yet. He jt thought that would be fun to get Billy Ray Cys on the remix. And his people lled Billy Ray Cys, his people. And our lleague, Joe Cosrelli — shoutout to Joe — did this Diary of a Song.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (joe srelli)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Billy Ray, tell me when you first heard “Old Town Road.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (billy ray cys)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I heard the song on March the 16th. And we were havg our morng ffee. And I actually stood up out of my chair. I stood up and go, God, I love that. That du is origal.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thk that to have Billy Ray step and really jt flex on them, I thk that really garnered Nas a lot of rpect, too, bee he didn’t back down. And he ma an even better song.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (billy ray cys)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Yeah, I’m gog to take my horse to the Old Town Road, I’m gog to ri till I n’t no more. I’m gog to take my horse to the Old Town Road. I’m gog to ri till I n’t no more.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I got the hors the back.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So Nas get Billy Ray Cys on the track. It blows up even more. It do get on the untry charts. And on the Billboard Hot 100, ss at number one for 19 weeks, which is a rerd. And then the middle of all this, he out.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How did he do that?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s performg at the Glastonbury Ftival on the last day of Pri Month. I mean, he’s e out at this pot to his fay members and to his team, but not to the world. But durg this performance, he said that he was lookg out at the crowd, and he saw everyone wavg their pri flags and jt felt so overe wh emotn that he took his phone. He thought about the tweet that he was gog to wre for 10 mut, topped off and then he was out.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, so I’ll jt read the tweet. It says, “Some of y’all already know. Some of y’all don’t re. Some of y’all not gog to F wh me no more. But before this month ends I want y’all to listen closely to ‘Closure,’” which is one of his tracks — has all the lyrics about beg te to yourself. And then he ends the tweet wh the rabow emoji, the sey emoji that has stars s ey, and the sparkle emoji.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The gayt emojis, y.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I ught bad yterday. You h me wh a ll to your place. A’t been out a while anyway. Was hop’ I uld tch you throw’ s my face. Romantic talk’? You don’t even have to try.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so now he’s a huge star. He’s already ed this major disptn wh the untry charts thg. He out. And then he back on the scene wh this song, “Call Me By Your Name” and this psychelic roller aster of a vio.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The mic vio, I kept tryg to scribe as Tipper Gore’s worst nightmare, bee we n see Nas’s time the church. It really is — ’s almost like a Bible study a way. It lerally starts the Garn of En and then ends up movg to this Greek thedral, which Nas is judged for his ss. And then ultimately, culmat this scene where he is killed. And he starts to ascend up to heaven, but actually swch urse and ends up hell.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thk the most blasphemo part, what people might fd blasphemo, is that he giv a lap dance to the vil, who kd of lik . And then at the very end, he sneaks behd the vil, breaks his neck, remov his crown, puts on his head and then tak over as the lear of hell. So a standard Thursday.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I wanna sell what you’re buy’. I wanna feel on your ass Hawaii. I want that jet lag om [EXPLETIVE] and fly’. Shoot a shot your mouth while I’m ridg.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It seemed like wh this vio, he’s askg the qutn, OK, if you’re tellg me I’m gog to go to hell, what’s gog to happen when I get there? And I thk he took upon himself to fill the rt of that story.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, this vio is really pullg together all the aspects of his life that you’ve laid out. He’s puttg his sexualy out there. He’s explorg his relatnship wh his fah. I mean, what do you make of all this?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk that when you are told for your entire life that your selfhood is perverse, that this knowledge that you stggled so hard to accept even wh yourself, and then go to church on Sundays, where your father is a gospel sger, and to hear about the fire brimstone that awas you, I thk that would make someone really angry.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thk that Nas’s work, we talk a lot about how over-the-top thgs are and how clever they are, but there’s really this unrcurrent of anger that I fd really tertg, bee really is a send-up of this promise of eternal damnatn that he has endured for a really long time. And I wre the story that jt bee you are sentenced to hell don’t mean that you’re sentenced to sufferg. And I thk that is what we are seeg this vio.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, he’s g his anger. He’s g his sexualy. And then he dials up a notch and releas a new vio. And feels like everythg he’s been dog so far was leadg up to this, to “Indtry Baby.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[mic - lil nas x, "dtry baby"]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) Baby back.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Maybe we n jt talk about the visuals.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Whew, where to beg? Do you want to start?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, tak place prison. This jail is not like any other jail that I’ve seen before.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s a sexy jail, which is the weirst turn of phrase I thk to ever leave my mouth. This is a jail that is a verifiable explosn of shirtls, oiled up, gay men who jt seem to be havg an amazg time, performg choreographed danc the shower together.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No one is wearg a shirt. And there are a lot of naked people this jail. But their uniforms are pk. And I thk what I was thkg about is how there are some stereotyp and thgs that you say about someone gog to jail that are thly veiled homophobia. You say that there’s gog to be somebody’s prison [EXPLETIVE]. You talk about don’t drop the soap. It’s almost as though ’s not jail that’s the punishment, but that somethg gay might happen to you there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I mean, what you’re scribg is makg me realize how poorly thought out most homophobic trop are — that he has had this emergg theme of jt takg the standard very mon trop of homophobia and rryg them out to their logil end, and flippg the script and sayg, what if this was actually a lot of fun?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, and not jt flippg the script on homophobia, but flippg on the entire mic dtry. There’s a tweet where he rponds to the backlash that he’s gotten for the vio and for beg out and for beg proud to be out. The tweet says, you don’t say anythg when people dite their entire mic talog to rappg about sleepg wh multiple women. But when I do somethg sexual, I’m beg, quote unquote, “sexually irrponsible,” and, quote, “g more men to die om AIDS.” And he ends that tweet wh, “Y’all hate gay people and don’t hi .”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, and the really gen thg that Lil Nas X is dog is that he is an openly gay pop star who is sexual. And gay pop stars, havg gay men who like to sg all the time and are very famo for is nothg new, right? But the ia that one of those people also has sex and really lik and sgs about explic terms, and is not necsarily sgg love songs wh vague pronouns or maybe htg at somethg, Lil Nas X is like, I’m gay. I’m attracted to men.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, and he’s puttg a bunch of guys the vio like eye ndy, like hot guys. And ’s not like a love is love thg. It’s like, look at the hotti. I’m havg so much fun beg gay.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Nas is, many ways, or I thk the novelty wh him is that he’s jt tryg to occupy the same lane that so many straight people have, male and female, before him when to modifyg his sexualy. He’s jt tryg to do a Black queer body. And the whole pot of this is that straight people have been able to build entire reers and the credible succs and sell rerds and do all this stuff.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the pot of , I gus, the re of all, is that they have ma a lot of money. And I don’t thk that Nas is — I don’t mean to say that he’s motivated by money. But we know that this is an credibly succsful unrtakg. So why don’t he have the same opportuny to do what all the straight people have been dog for centuri?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It jt feels really different om how pop stars talked about sexualy when I was younger. And I feel like I listened to a lot of Gee Michael high school, and wasn’t until a lot later that I was like, oh, wa a send.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHTER]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">He wasn’t straight, was he? You know what I mean?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, weirdly, the first news story I ever remember hearg or the first sort of wispread mor was the fifth gra. I remember my bt iend at the time, Stephanie, tellg me that Ricky Mart was gay so we shouldn’t listen to “Liv’ La Vida Lo” anymore. But he didn’t e out until 2010. So that was 10 years after I found out that he was gay. So was at that pot pretty much an open secret. While we have seen gay male pop stars or gay pop stars be gay the public eye, ’s not happened at the peak of their fame, or even Nas’s se, as their fame is crawlg up that roller aster.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, and so bee of everythg you’ve told , growg up the ter, crazy skills at social media, stanng for Nicki Maj, stgglg wh his upbrgg the church, Nas has been able to e all of this while beg one of the biggt pop stars on the charts, who happens to be gay. And he mak that part of his athetic and msage, but he’s jt sayg, look, I’m gay. This is who I am. You jt have to accept . It feels very Gen Z. It’s new.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, even though I am a lennial, I intify as a Gen Z gay bee my — I mean, I thk that my cut-off is not actually when you were born, but when you me out. And I have what I fd is a real Gen Z, jokey, meme-like approach to my sexualy. I thk the word is mimetic approach to my sexualy. And that is somethg that I have mon wh Nas, too, even though we’re a uple of years apart.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">While he do seem like he’s havg fun wh , I mean —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Listen, Dodai, take om me. As someone who wasn’t gay and is now gay, beg gay is so much more fun. And he’s havg a lot of fun wh . And I thk Nas and people his hort thk of their queer inty as sort of fun-facg, as fun first, right? And so we’re makg mem. We still have that anger that touch the liv of so many queer people. But the way that manifts the way that we al wh , I thk, is to make fun of bee we have all the hard won gas by people who me before .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What do you thk means for a young gay person today to have Lil Nas X their life, to grow up wh him?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I hope that ’s actually kd of monplace, that eventually for a young person who’s growg up wh Lil Nas X now, what he is dog is gog to be seen as credibly normal. And they’re like, oh, people were always really gay and really sexual and also really popular.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And lap dancg on the vil.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, you’re like, I did that last week gym class.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">dodai stewart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS] Jazme, thank you so much. This was so much fun.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">jazme hugh</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[mic - lil nas x, "dtry baby"]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd"></p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (lil nas x)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) I’m the dtry baby. Yeah.</p></dd></dl></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url(unfed)" class="css-197zlhc e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-ah35qo ehra6vc0"><a href="" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="unfed logo"/><span></span></span></a></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-wfiq9c edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-15oz550 edye5kn2">Some Said Lil Nas X Was a One-H Wonr. They Were Wrong.</h1><h2 class="css-syyj5g edye5kn3">He’s lap dancg on the vil, wng the ter — and refg what a pop star n be.</h2></div><span class="css-xpptmx edye5kn4"></span><button type="button" class="css-w62hzm" aria-haspopup="te" aria-label="Show Aud Transcript"><div class="css-1vd84sn"><svg xmlns=" width="24" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 20" fill="#F8F8F8"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M0 0H24V20H0V0ZM3 7H21V9H3V7ZM21 11H3V13H21V11ZM3 15H21V17H3V15ZM11 3H3V5H11V3Z" fill="#F8F8F8"></path></svg><span class="css-16bt4xd">Transcript</span></div></button></div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabx="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="whe" fill-opacy="0.9"></circle><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-tle" role="regn"><hear class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-tle">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-ttid="transcript-playback-ntrols"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabx="99" type="button" class="css-1t9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns=" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--lor-ntent-sendary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--lor-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns=" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><tle>bars.