Is fah-based opposn to gay marriage a ‘protected characteristic’? | The Spectator

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Kate Forb’s n for First Mister may be short-lived but will certaly be tertg. Her challenge: she’s a member to the Free Church of Stland which oppos gay marriage, abortn and genr self-ID. For seven years as a parliamentarian she has avoid sayg what she thks about such issu and for obv reasons:

Contents:

SPECTATOR’S FRASER NELSON SAYS HE DIDN’T LL EUROVISN ‘TOO GAY’

The Seventi saw many women's rights, gay rights, and environmental movements. Spectator edor Fraser Nelson, 41, has e unr fire after remarks he ma at the Eurovisn nference last week were terpreted as implyg the petn was “too gay”.

IS FAH-BASED OPPOSN TO GAY MARRIAGE A ‘PROTECTED CHARACTERISTIC’?

“[In the UK Eurovisn is] rced to the level of a mil gay pri march. ”But Nelson, prevly a bs wrer for The Tim and polil mentator for the News of the World, told The Inpennt he didn’t say Eurovisn was “too gay” and said that he fds the ia of such a view “repugnant” Nelson is the edor of The Spectator (Getty)He said the “unfortunate phrase” was ed by the panel’s morator who later apologised for when an dience-member plaed about .

“I didn't say was ‘too gay’ - nor would I ever make such a daft remark, ” Fraser said. After years parliament she will have been aware of the reactn to an MSP who clared their opposn to gay marriage, let alone pre-maral sex.

” And on gay marriage: “I would have voted, as a matter of nscience, along the l of mastream teachg most major religns, that marriage is between a man and a woman. Her challenge: she’s a member to the Free Church of Stland which oppos gay marriage, abortn and genr self-ID. But today she was asked directly and gave a straight answer: she would have voted agast gay marriage and would have ‘stggled’ to back Nila Sturgeon on genr self-ID.

THE HISTORY OF NELSON GAY – A REMARKABLE PROVENANCE

Sadiq Khan, for example, is unlikely to be asked if he backs gay marriage – not jt bee this isn’t really relevant to his duti as Mayor of London but bee this would be seen as a dig at his beg Mlim. You n be agast gay marriage your own church, mosque or synagogue – but through a belief liberty, vote to ensure that others n arrange their own affairs any way they like. Tim Farron voted for equal marriage but was asked a different qutn: did he regard gay sex as sful?

She offers the example of Angela Merkel, who personally opposed gay marriage but still believed that should be brought if via a mocratic procs.

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* FRASER NELSON GAY

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ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-align-center--rSd6h ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-4--zeW5_"><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__size-14--Ume6q ontend-pencraft-Text-module__le-height-20--p0dP8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__weight-bold--Ps9DB ontend-pencraft-Text-module__font-text--QmNJR ontend-pencraft-Text-module__lor-pub-primary-text--RzL7j ontend-pencraft-Text-module__ret--dW0zZ ontend-pencraft-Text-module__body4--Pl3xY">Andrew Sullivan</div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="tw-mt-6 tw-text-center"><div class="podst-scriptn tw-mb-6 tw-font-sans tw-text-base tw-text-pub-sendary-text"><span data-ttid="podst-scriptn" class="podst-scriptn--clamped">Unaaid nversatns about anythg</span></div><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt 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">Subscribe</span></button></div><div id="error-ntaer"></div><div class="subtle-help-text below-put ontend-ponents-ee_email_form-module__lks--G_QlQ"></div></form><div class="ontend-log-typo_handler-EmailTypoHandler-module__animatnWrapper--UT0du"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="ntaer ntaer--podst-post ntaer--podst-post-wh-ufi"><div class="available-ntent"><div dir="to" class="body markup"><div class="ptned-image-ntaer"><figure><a class="image-lk is-viewable-img image2" target="_blank" href=" data-ponent-name="Image2ToDOM" rel><div class="image2-set"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset=" 424w, 848w, 1272w, 1456w" siz="100vw" /><img src=" width="1033" height="334" data-attrs="{"src":"" class="sizg-normal" alt srcset=" 424w, 848w, 1272w, 1456w" siz="100vw" fetchprry="high" /></picture><div class="image-lk-expand"><svg xmlns=" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="#FFFFFF" stroke-width="2" stroke-lep="round" stroke-lejo="round" class="luci luci-maximize2"><polyle pots="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyle><polyle pots="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyle><le x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></le><le x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></le></svg></div></div></a></figure></div><p>Fraser is a Sttish Catholic highlanr who now eds (brilliantly) the Spectator London. Deeply versed Tory polics, and sympathetic to Boris, he seemed the ial person to ask to expla what’s been gog on Wtmster, what went so wrong unr PM Johnson, and who is likely to replace him. It’s a one-stop gui to ntemporary Brish polics a d Sttish accent.</p><p><span>You n listen to the episo right away the d player above (or on the right si of the player, click “Listen On” to add the Dishst feed to your favore podst app). For two clips of our nvo — on how Rishi Sunak and Liz Tss pare to one another, and what Fraser lls the “absolutely electrifyg” effect of Kemi Banoch — pop over to </span><a href=" rel>our YouTube page</a><span>.</span></p><p><span>A good plement to this episo is the one I had last year wh Domic Cummgs, the brilliant strategist behd Brex and the rise of Boris. </span><a href=" rel>Here’s the transcript</a><span>. Here’s a clip about Domic’s break om Boris:</span></p><div id="youtube2-GFTMM_M9wYg" class="youtube-wrap" data-attrs="{"vioId":"GFTMM_M9wYg","startTime":null,"endTime":null}" data-ponent-name="Youtube2ToDOM"><div class="youtube-ner"><iame src=" ameborr="0" loadg="lazy" gture="media" allow="toplay; fullscreen" allowtoplay="te" allowfullscreen="te" width="728" height="409"></iame></div></div><p><span>To ntue the bate over </span><a href=" rel>my recent lumn on Tmp and Boris</a><span>, a rear wr:</span></p><blockquote><p>Here’s a dissent: You are right about Tmp. You are wrong about Johnson.</p><p>Lyg naturally to Johnson. It’s not jt to get out of trouble. He li about everythg. Max Hastgs knew this and prciently forest would all blow up.  It has.</p><p>Let’s turn to Brex. First take the term “el.” This glib, trash term is ovesed, over-hackneyed and should have no place your lexin. Unls very refully fed, is pletely meangls. I know as many lawyers and cy typ who voted for Brex as did Rema, and likewise for garners, rpenters, plumbers etc. The Brish public was nned, lied to and persuad there was a problem of the EU’s dog. </p><p>To be fair, there were problems, some of which n be laid at the EU’s door, but for too many years, blame flectn was the name of the game. Most of the problems the untry faced were homegrown. Now look at what has happened: we have a stutterg enomy, low growth and haven’t yet troduced the checks at our borrs we are supposed to, as will e even more chaos — Jab Re-Mogg has admted as much. That’s what happens when you erect major tra barriers wh your neighbours and largt market. We n bate immigratn as much as you like, but the problem has got worse, and as you rrectly poted out, the numbers have creased.</p><p>Now let’s look at the so-lled Conservative Party. Unr Johnson, one-natn nservatism died. He killed . It was replaced, liberately, by a populist, divisive style of le, not dissiar to Tmp’s, que happy to bend or break laws and nventns orr to further s agenda. Its leadg persona was Boris Johnson, and to the eternal shame of the Conservative Party, prec few murred. </p><p>The problems the untry now face stem directly om Brex: a plethora of unfulfillable promis built on li. There are still many who thk Brex was a good thg, but there is a growg and signifint majory that now regnis isn’t workg and was a mistake. It’s happened, and Keir Starmer is right to say that the next step should be to improve relatns wh the EU and to see what n be ma to work, startg wh the Northern Ireland Protol (puttg a borr down the Irish Sea was, you’ll remember, a promise Johnson swore he would never do.  And then promptly did “to get Brex done”). All the ce volved driv me mad, but the Labour Party, by electg a no-hoper and no-braer Jeremy Corbyn, ma wng a majory evable (and remember FPTP didn’t require a signifintly higher number of vot to achieve this).</p><p>It might be too early to wre off the Conservative Party, much as I would like to, spe havg voted for them most of my adult life. But they are tated, out of ias, and spe the diversy you appld, not imprsive. I fear the next few months may prove as entertag as the last few years.</p><p>One aspect that you haven’t touched on is the role of the media. It is staggerg to see the gree of partisanship on display. The Telegraph, Mail and Exprs appear to be livg an alternative universe where tth and fantasy mgle whout differentiatn. And why did the Tim, which I read along wh the Guardian, pull the blow-job report? This, along wh the Londongrad money saga, is for another day.  </p><p>By the way, I am pleased you quoted Mara Hy. Her sasss, razor-sharp tellect and acerbic w are spot-on.</p></blockquote><p>We will have her on the Dishst soon enough. Here’s a rear London:</p><blockquote><p>Sure, there was mountg tratn about Boris Johnson’s lyg — not jt the lyg, but the fact that he variably had to follow wh “oh y, e to thk of …” But voters, as opposed to MPs, thk policians lie all the time anyway, so I don’t thk the cut-through is as great as might be supposed. </p><p>I thk the great pot lost all this is that Boris got his landsli bee of Brex and the creasg tratn wh his abily to grasp the potential benefs beme a hugely creasg sore, exacerbated by the daily shots of illegal immigrants turng up on our shor bber dghi, often helped by the lifeboat service. This and his abily to grasp until too late how badly the enomy was gog to h Mr & Mrs Average was what st him public support as much as, if not more so, than his enomy of tth. </p><p>Another pot not ma enough is that Boris seemed to be a prisoner of foc groups and vol groups of MPs, which meant he was nstantly veerg om one view to another. He ma a strg of supposedly excg announcements that remaed jt that, never gettg anywhere. You n only do that for so long before the public wis up.</p><p>Y, was the MPs who knifed him, but the were MPs gettg the neck om their nstuents for what was (or more often was not) gog on. My neighbour tore up his Tory membership rd sheer tratn and told our MP about . </p><p>Boris uld offer no clear guidg prcipl we uld clg to that would help bat asi the machatns of Cummgs, the BBC et al, who were maniftly on a missn to fentrate him. In the end, even those who fear for Brex the wake of his parture uld see there was no other urse.</p></blockquote><p><span>Lookg back to </span><a href=" rel>last week’s episo wh Peter Staley</a><span>, here’s a key moment where he lls the feral petence over monkeypox “Covid 2.0”:</span></p><div id="youtube2-MrcKXYtTAuI" class="youtube-wrap" data-attrs="{"vioId":"MrcKXYtTAuI","startTime":null,"endTime":null}" data-ponent-name="Youtube2ToDOM"><div class="youtube-ner"><iame src=" ameborr="0" loadg="lazy" gture="media" allow="toplay; fullscreen" allowtoplay="te" allowfullscreen="te" width="728" height="409"></iame></div></div><p><span>The whole 20-mute segment on monkeypox is </span><a href=" rel>here</a><span>. Another listener “enjoyed the episo”:</span></p><blockquote><p>I share Mr. Staley’s ncerns about the ernment’s handlg of the monkeypox outbreak. I agree wh him that the US did a disturbgly poor job of handlg the Covid panmic at the start. However, I have two important qualifiers:</p><ol><li><p>The US was hardly the primary “bad actor” Covid; stupidy and misnduct other untri was more flagrant and more nsequential.</p></li><li><p>I don’t know the tails of the burecratic manglg of the monkeypox vacce, but everythg Staley reports sounds sadly accurate. However, seems to me that the re problem early the AIDS panmic, and the past two months wh monkeypox, was the unwillgns of many the gay muny to modify their behavr nsistent wh obv public health ncerns. I was stck that neher you nor Staley mentn this, beyond your effort to provi some ratnal current health advice, which is however strongly tilted toward vaccatn over behavr modifitn.</p></li></ol></blockquote><p>We did urge gay men to “ol ” for a while. Maybe we should have been more adamant. It’s also beg clearer how this versn of monkeypox is spread: primarily through sexual ntact. If mere sk-touchg were spreadg , then seems to me the epimic would be much, much larger, given the crowds durg Pri. That means, of urse, that we have the abily to help stop , by not havg sex until vaccated. That’s not sex-phobic or homophobic. It’s jt sensible health advice.</p><p>Another dissenter expands on the rear’s send pot:</p><blockquote><p>Your discsn of monkeypox really bugged me, for a reason I hope you take to heart. The vast majory of was foced on the failur of the FDA and CDC, which I don’t take issue wh. But the assumptns of the world you live , particularly when Provcetown, were alarmgly siar to the assumptns you make (rightfully) about the progrsive left — that tak for granted people not havg agency their own liv.</p><p>The US ernment has (probably) failed wh monkeypox, as has wh other diseas. Given that, what should people do? You and Staley both took for granted that you seemed to have a right — almost an obligatn — to party hard P-Town, which the ernment’s failure was terferg wh. It wasn’t until more than halfway through this part of the nversatn that Staley and then you mentned offhand that “some” people were suggtg people “ol ” for a month or so.</p><p>But listen aga to the rt of your nversatn about monkeypox. Time and aga, you blamed the ernment for s failur and never said anythg about maybe the party boys uld do somethg bis bemoan the abily to get vaccated — maybe party ls or (trigger warng) not go to Provcetown one summer. Self-rtrat the face of a still small but loomg epimic was only on the margs of your assumptns.</p><p>At this early stage, rtrat now among the mostly gay-male monkeypox sprears would have exponential benefs gog forward. Isn’t that a msage about social good that is worth the tellg?</p><p>I’m olr and was never much of a partier, so I gus ’s easier for me to say this. But the pretty nfed groups of A-Gays ought to take some agency their own liv at this cril time, and maybe give somethg up temporarily for the benef of both themselv and a very real group of future A-Gays and B-Gays and whatever letter the rt of get. Not to mentn heterosexuals.</p></blockquote><p>As you n see, I take your pot. Another listener mov to a different part of the discsn:</p><blockquote><p>Your terview wh Peter Staley was fairly tertg regardg his participatn durg the cril years of AIDS. But the nversatn beme electric when the subject turned to cril queer theory, the doctratn of children, and the discsn of sex inty prchool. You kept askg Staley if he thought was ok to teach children this curriculum and he kept nervoly lghg and avoidg to answer and said that you’re nfed and bangg your ltle dm. </p><p>I agree wh you: cril theory has hijacked the gay muny, gay rights, etc. and there very well uld be an anti-gay backlash. Please ntue to voice your si and fight for mon sense. Your observatns of cril theory’s dangero impact are not anecdotal — they’re unfortunately everywhere.</p></blockquote><p>To ci for yourself, here’s a clip of that heated exchange:</p><div id="youtube2-FhGPiPPHWeM" class="youtube-wrap" data-attrs="{"vioId":"FhGPiPPHWeM","startTime":null,"endTime":null}" data-ponent-name="Youtube2ToDOM"><div class="youtube-ner"><iame src=" ameborr="0" loadg="lazy" gture="media" allow="toplay; fullscreen" allowtoplay="te" allowfullscreen="te" width="728" height="409"></iame></div></div><p>From a listener San Francis:</p><blockquote><p>I had never heard of Peter Staley before (I’m a 49-year-old gay man SF). ACT-UP and Queer Natn had already fallen apart when I land there 1993 as a young punk rock guy. So I was terted hearg his retellg of that perd the late ‘80s. But then the nvo moved to gay activism today — and wow. I thought, “Well this is . This is the nial that so many gay men have about the genr iology cult.” They are fuckg terrified of speakg out agast this. And of urse ’s bee they know would mean expulsn om pole Democrat society.</p><p>I was recently discsg the mass ln perd we’re livg through around Genr ID extremism. Someone said we should get ready for a massive gaslightg om people who will tell that they never believed this cult.</p></blockquote><p>For what ’s worth, I keep hearg om gay men Provcetown how alienated they are om this iology, but also how sred they are to voice their ncerns — pecially about what this doctratn is dog to gay children. Peter is emblematic of the majory, however, who prefer dismissg the ncerns as overblown, and stickg to their own polil tribe, which they have now ternalized as “LGBTQIA+”. It’s madng, but a functn of real homophob latchg onto the “groomer” disurse, and tribal gays closg ranks opposn. </p><p>The real trouble is that the non-prof stutns allegedly reprentg are packed wh cril theory zealots who experience no phback, and if they do, purge the dissenters. My view is that gay men should stop fundg groups that are dited to the aboln of homosexualy. </p><p>From a parent:</p><blockquote><p>It was so hard for me to listen to Peter Staley downplay the genr stuff for kids. My five-year-old stayed up an hour past her bedtime last night bee she was worried she uld sudnly bee male, or that my breasts might disappear. She is extremely nfed. At a time her life when she is only begng to unrstand what will mean for her to grow up and bee a physil woman, she thks her “pronouns” might sudnly change and she might bee genrls. Teenaged mp unselors wh clear and obv feme featur are tellg her that they are neher male nor female. </p><p>The worst part of that, is that my dghter is begng to believe that her sex is termed by her terts and behavr. For example, she thks that if I swear too much, I may bee male. The rult is her belief that womanhood is some sort of rtoonish stereotype of old-fashned genr rol. </p><p>It’s all so regrsive. As a lifelong liberal, I am repulsed by the mastream ph to rerce genr stereotyp and sentialism. What might be an even bigger crime for a wrer like myself is that my dghter — who hasn’t even started krgarten yet — thks pronouns are a personal tra, not a part of speech. As horrified as I am at the regrsive and sexist genr rol beg phed on my child, I am equally grimacg at the grammatil nfn this creatg. Can’t the school teach my kid what a pronoun even is before scramblg her bra? </p></blockquote><p>Happy to air your personal experience. It’s horrifyg. Another worried parent:</p><blockquote><p>I jt had the most trigug nversatn wh my 17-year-old dghter. She said that if she ever had a child who was trans, she would totally support that. Cur, I asked why. She said, “Bee ’s all about who you love, and ’s ok to love different people.”</p><p>I said, “Hold up, you’re talkg about beg gay. Trans don’t have anythg do wh who you love.”</p><p>She sisted that did. </p><p>I said aga, “No, you’re talkg about beg gay.” </p><p>She said, “They're the same thg. Whenever a guy wants to be a girl, ’s bee he wants to be able to date other guys. And when a girl wants to be a guy, ’s so that she n date other girls.”</p><p>I said, “Now you're jt nfirmg — you are lerally talkg about beg gay. There is no nnectn. Sometim a guy transns to beg a woman, but still wants to date women — and will say that he has bee a lbian.”</p><p>She jt didn’t believe me! She shook her head and said somethg like, “It’s all over TikTok, and 99 percent of the time, when someone wants to be trans, ’s bee they’re jt tryg to be gay.”</p><p>We changed the subject, but even though this is jt one data pot (my dghter), I do wonr how prevalent her pot of view is among other teenagers who watch TikTok.</p></blockquote><p>God only knows. But the attempt to nflate very different gay, lbian and trans experienc is part of an iologil project, rooted postmornism. It is signed to stroy anyone’s herent unrstandg of stable human nature. </p><p>This next listener is on Staley’s si, not wantg to spegoat queer theorists:</p><blockquote><p><span>I have to agree wh Peter Staley that mass doctratn of cril trans/queer/genr theory school children is not the e of any rise genr nfn and trans inty. Somethg else is gog on. My theory: the blogil anism of </span><em>homo sapiens</em><span> is unrgog evolutnary reproductive change due to mountg environmental strs.</span></p><p><span>Let’s start wh the simple observatn that schools are only one small part of the cultural, polil, environmental, faial and technologil waters children swim . One lson om the story book </span><em>How To Raise A Trans Inclive Child</em><span> is not gog to make much of a sexual inty nt the ocean of rmatn, strs and nfn children are growg up the days.</span></p><p>There are so many other strs that are gog to have far greater blogil impacts. Overpopulatn is of urse the big one that nnot be discsed. There are too many rats the ge. Humans now live on a pla which they are nstantly bathed low dos of dtrial and agricultural chemils of every kd. It is our food, air and water. Developg embryos are all bathed the chemils to some gree.</p><p>Throw all the current enomic and polil chaos. Add the bugaboo of social media and the cultural worship of money and fame. Body modifitn wh tattoos, piercg and plastic surgery is a norm. You n create yourself to be anythg.</p><p>A big change, of urse, is the risg equaly of women. Enomilly, that is gog to give women a better hand to play reproductive choice. Hoe hbands are beg more and more mon. Stereotypil genr expectatns are pretty much kaput. Let’s not fet the #MeToo movement — that certaly threw a wrench to heterosexual relatns.</p><p>So what are the kids supposed to thk about sex and genr? </p><p>The are jt some of the dots that Staley suggted may need a b more nnectg. So ’s a b of a stretch to p any risg genr nfn and dysphoria on doctratn wh cril genr/queer/trans theory school children. That would be about as effective as nversn therapy for gay men. It’s not that simple to nvert.</p></blockquote><p>But ’s very easy to nfe a third-grar. One more rear keeps another bate gog:</p><blockquote><p><span>I wanted to rpond to </span><a href=" rel>your rponse</a><span> to the theory that another rear “wanted to float by you” about the nature/nurture bate over trans inty and sexual orientatn. First, I thk you dismiss this person’s ia a b too readily. The possibily that sexual orientatn isn’t born (even though I agree wh you that ’s voluntary) is actually relevant to this discsn. </span></p><p>Much of the morn trans movement rrectly attempts to hch s claims to the claims ma by the gay rights movement, and “born this way” is no exceptn to this trend. If people are born trans, as this movement claims, then ’s theoretilly possible to intify trans children wh perfect accuracy and medilize them before they go through puberty. But if stead, maturg to a trans adult is a stochastic procs, then ’s impossible to predict perfectly which kids will persist their trans inty after puberty. And such a se, nvcg the public to support youth medil transn is a much harr sell.</p><p><span>Addnally, I disagree wh you on whether trans people choose to be trans. </span><a href=" rel>Dysphoric dividuals like Lren Black</a><span>, who choose to al wh their genr dysphoria whout transng, plite the claim that transng is the only possible oute for someone wh genr dysphoria. I thk there are some people wh dysphoria severe enough that medil transn is the bt choice for them. But the cisn of whether to transn or handle dysphoria other ways is still ultimately a choice.</span></p></blockquote><p><span>As always, send your dissents, as well as other ments and personal stori, to </span><strong></strong><span>.</span></p><p></p></div></div><div class="visibily-check"></div><div class="post-footer"><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flexGrow--mx4xz ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-jtify-space-between--NvIcg ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-align-center--rSd6h ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-16--TpblU ontend-pencraft-Box-module__paddg-y-16--ohCEm ontend-pencraft-Box-module__borr-top-tail-themed--e17yZ ontend-pencraft-Box-module__borr-bottom-tail-themed--eVwFY post-ufi"><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-8--HFpIK"><div class="like-button-ntaer post-ufi-button style-button"><a role="button" class="post-ufi-button style-button has-label wh-borr"><svg role="img" style="height: 20px; width: 20px;" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="#000000" stroke-width="2" stroke="#000" xmlns=" class="in"><g><tle> .

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