Amazg HIV+ Gay Men: Andy Bell

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* ANDY BELL GAY

LGBTQ Pop Star History - Andy Bell of Erasure, Rod Thomas of Bright Light Bright Light On Queer Mic</tle><meta name="tle" ntent="LGBTQ Pop Star History - Andy Bell of Erasure, Rod Thomas of Bright Light Bright Light On Queer Mic" /><meta name="scriptn" ntent="Dave Holm, Andy Bell of Erasure, and Rod Thomas of Bright Light Bright Light discs the history of LGBTQ reprentatn Top 40 mic." /><meta name="keywords" ntent /><meta property="og:type" ntent="webse" /><meta name="theme-lor" ntent="#000000" /><lk href="/_assets/sign-tokens/quire/static/imag/" rel="in" /><meta property="og:se_name" ntent="Esquire" /><meta name="fb:app_id" ntent="171874009543995" property="fb:app_id" /><meta name="article:publisher" ntent=" property="article:publisher" /><meta name="fb:pag" ntent="84169421673" property="fb:pag" /><meta name="twter:se" ntent="@Esquire" /><meta name="google-se-verifitn" ntent="1vf5i9wM7chlCFc_0XI_e-oCfDf4sEvp32sTGKokQ" /><meta property="og:tle" ntent="The Story of the Out, Queer Pop Star Is Only Jt Begng" /><meta property="og:scriptn" ntent="Dave Holm, Andy Bell of Erasure, and Rod Thomas of Bright Light Bright Light discs the history of LGBTQ reprentatn Top 40 mic." /><meta name="robots" ntent="max-image-preview:large,max-snippet:-1,max-vio-preview:30" /><lk rel="apple-touch-in" href="/_assets/sign-tokens/quire/static/imag/" /><meta property="og:image" ntent="" /><meta property="og:image:width" ntent="1200" /><meta property="og:image:height" ntent="600" /><meta name="thumbnail" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent=" /><meta name="twter:image" ntent="" /><meta ntent=" property="og:url" /><meta name="to-publish" ntent="timely" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="article" /><meta name="twter:rd" ntent="summary_large_image" /><meta name="article:opn" property="article:opn" /><meta ntent="Mic" property="article:sectn" /><meta ntent="2023-05-07T10:59:06Z" property="article:modified_time" /><meta ntent="2020-12-10T13:14:00Z" property="article:published_time" /><meta name="sailth.excerpt" ntent="The out queer pop star is still a rare thg our culture, and a fairly new velopment. In the 1970s, Sylvter, Kls Nomi and Jobriath were a touch too sophistited for the mastream, and Freddie Mercury was as y about his sexualy as one uld be ontg a band" /><meta name="" ntent="entertament,Entertament,mic,Mic" /><meta name="" ntent="2020-12-10 13:14:00" /><meta name="sailth.socialtle" ntent="The Story of the Out, Queer Pop Star Is Only Jt Begng" /><meta name="ntenttype" ntent="standard-article" /><meta id="m1" name="m1" emProp="cssSelector " ntent=".ntent-hed" /><meta id="m2" name="m2" emProp="cssSelector" ntent=".ntent-k p" /><lk href="/" emSpe emType=" emRef="m1 m2" /><lk rel="preload" as="image" image-src-set=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" image-siz="100vw" /><lk rel="prefetch" href="" as="image" /><lk rel="preload" as="image" image-src-set=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" image-siz="100vw" /><meta name="next-head-unt" ntent="48" /><meta name="next-font-prennect" /><script id="vice-tect" data-nscript="beforeInteractive">(()=>{nst o="ontouchstart" 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data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Entertament" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10asp0m e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">Entertament</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="1" /></li><li emProp="emListElement" emSpe emType=" class="css-zxq36b e9l0kn01"><a emProp="em" href="/entertament/mic/" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Breadcmbs" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Mic" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10asp0m e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">Mic</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="2" /></li><style data-emotn="css huh8md">{display:none;}{paddg:0.25rem;ntent:">";}</style><li emProp="emListElement" emSpe emType=" class="css-huh8md e9l0kn01"><a emProp="em" href="/entertament/mic/a34837553/history-of-lbtq-pop-mic-andy-bell-erasure-rod-thomas-bright-light-bright-light/" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Breadcmbs" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="The Story of the Out, Queer Pop Star Is Only Jt Begng" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10asp0m e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">The Story of the Out, Queer Pop Star Is Only Jt Begng</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="3" /></li></ol></nav><style data-emotn="css g4r5va">{font-fay:Glanz,Glanz-fallback,Tim,Serif;font-weight:normal;grid-lumn:1/-1;marg-bottom:0.9375rem;marg-top:0.9375rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:2rem;le-height:1.25;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:2.625rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:3.125rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem){{font-size:3.37499rem;le-height:1.1;}}</style><h1 class="css-g4r5va exadjwu10"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span>The Story of the Out, Queer Pop Star Is Only Jt Begng<span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h1><style data-emotn="css 2qf7xf">{lor:#515150;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;marg-bottom:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.0625rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.3125rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.3125rem;le-height:1.3;}} a{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:#FF3A30;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:#000000;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;} a:hover{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><div class="css-2qf7xf exadjwu8"><p>Dave Holm, Andy Bell of Erasure, and Rod Thomas of Bright Light Bright Light discs the history of LGBTQ reprentatn Top 40 mic.</p></div><style data-emotn="css 18k4ks7">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;marg-bottom:0.625rem;paddg-right:0.3125rem;text-transform:upperse;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}} span{font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0rem;text-transform:palize;}@media(max-width: 48rem){ span{le-height:2rem;font-size:0.875rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){ span{le-height:2rem;font-size:0.875rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){ 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width="40" height="40" dg="async" fetchPrry="high" class=" css-1sa04t ehvvd9m0" />By <style data-emotn="css 7l5upj">{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href="/thor/9774/dave-holm/" class="css-7l5upj e1c1bym14">Dave Holm</a></span><style data-emotn="css 1bcsdhu">{display:le-block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;marg-left:0.625rem;text-transform:upperse;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><time class="css-1bcsdhu exadjwu6">Published: Dec 10, 2020</time></addrs></div><style data-emotn="css 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eag3eq">{posn:relative;height:to;}</style><div class="css-eag3eq e5f9kgu1"><style data-emotn="css 335qep">{posn:relative;width:100%;height:100%;object-f:ver;vertil-align:top;}</style><img fetchPrry="high" alt="andy bell rod thomas" tle="andy bell rod thomas" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="css-335qep exi4f7p0" /></div><style data-emotn="css 285vyd">{le-height:1;}@media(max-width: 73.75rem){{paddg-left:0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg-left:0;}}</style><figptn class="css-285vyd enfs9c50"><style data-emotn="css 1mcfn5x">{lor:#595959;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;paddg-right:0.3125rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd2">Elae Chung</span></figptn></div></div><style data-emotn="css woto36">{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.6;paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;posn:relative;}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg-left:3.5rem;paddg-right:3.5rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem) and (max-width: 61.25rem){{max-width:45.25rem;marg-left:to;marg-right:to;}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem) and (max-width: 100rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;}{clear:both;ntent:" ";display:block;font-size:0.7rem;le-height:1.5rem;height:0rem;visibily:hidn;}</style><div class="article-body-ntent article-body standard-body-ntent css-woto36 ewisyje7"><style data-emotn="css am5pt0">{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.6;}{float:left;text-transform:upperse;font-weight:bold;marg-right:0.9375rem;marg-bottom:-0.625rem;marg-top:0;}{font-fay:Glanz,Glanz-fallback,Tim,Serif;font-size:6.25rem;font-weight:normal;le-height:0.75;marg-right:0;paddg:0.6rem 0.75rem 0 0;}@-moz-document url-prefix(){{marg-top:0.625rem;}}@media(max-width: 48rem){{marg-right:0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{le-height:0.75;}} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;}</style><p data-no-id="0" class="body-dropp css-am5pt0 et3p2gv0">The out queer pop star is still a rare thg our culture, and a fairly new velopment. In the 1970s, Sylvter, Kls Nomi and Jobriath were a touch too sophistited for the mastream, and Freddie Mercury was as y about his sexualy as one uld be ontg a band lled Queen. The fierce queer polics of Bronski Beat and the barely-d sex-posivy of Frankie Go To Hollywood ma some noise on the US charts the early 1980s while Elton John still prented as bisexual, but really wasn’t until Erasure explod onto the scene a uple years later that an open and fiant gay voice uld be heard at your high school dance. Sger Andy Bell has been out, loud and proud om the start of his reer, htg the US top 20 three tim durg the nservative Reagan and Bh years. He mand a ltle rpect, on his terms, and he got . </p><div supprsHydratnWarng data-no-id="1" data-embed="edorial-lk" class="embed css-0 e9hzx6g0"><style data-emotn="css 1643r8a">{borr:none;marg-top:1.875rem;marg-bottom:1.875rem;paddg:0rem;}</style><asi class="css-1643r8a e6pr2lz5"><style data-emotn="css l3w2xc">{display:le-block;font-weight:normal;marg:0rem;borr-top:0.25rem solid #15263D;paddg-right:1.1rem;paddg-top:0.4375rem;text-transform:lowerse;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1.3;}</style><h6 class="css-l3w2xc e6pr2lz3"><style data-emotn="css 156fvc1">{borr-bottom:0.4375rem solid #FF3A30;borr-right:0.4375rem solid transparent;ntent:'';display:le-block;height:0;marg-right:0.5rem;width:0;}</style><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-156fvc1 eagam8p0"></span><style data-emotn="css 8lle59">{max-width:lc(100% - 120px - .625rem);}</style><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Related Stori</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><style data-emotn="css c4s2gi">{paddg:0rem;marg:0rem;list-style:none;}</style><ul class="css-c4s2gi e6pr2lz4"><style data-emotn="css 79zw4t">{font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:1rem;le-height:2rem;paddg-top:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.9375rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{le-height:1.4;}} a{-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;} a:hover{lor:#595959;}</style><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><style data-emotn="css 1bn7a5e">{-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-box-flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-directn:row;-ms-flex-directn:row;flex-directn:row;-webk-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webk-jtify-ntent:flex-start;jtify-ntent:flex-start;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;}</style><a href="/entertament/mic/a34654383/bts-members-be-album-terview-2020/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="The Boundls Optimism of BTS" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><style data-emotn="css 1l0u1">{marg-right:0.625rem;height:to;}</style><img src="" alt="d" tle="The Boundls Optimism of BTS" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">The Boundls Optimism of BTS</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/liftyle/a34704556/ask-dave-christmas-mic-when-to-listen/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Ask Dave: Can I Listen to Christmas Mic Now?" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="christmas mic" tle="Ask Dave: Can I Listen to Christmas Mic Now?" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Ask Dave: Can I Listen to Christmas Mic Now?</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li></ul></asi></div><style data-emotn="css aeyldl">{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.6;} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;}</style><p data-no-id="2" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">It’s 34 years sce the release of Erasure’s but album <em>Wonrland</em>, and…well, not much has changed. While the gay dience is more sought-after than ever, openly-gay pop stars are still srce. Lady Gaga intifi as bi, Sam Smh as gay and non-bary, but beyond them, the last or so, only Lil Nas X has managed to crack the top ten. While the die world has Shamir, Perfume Geni, and Christe and the Queens, reprentatn for queer kids on mastream rad is still largely direct. </p><p data-no-id="3" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Rod Thomas is here to change that. Rerdg (mostly si his own East Village apartment) as Bright Light Bright Light, Thomas has jt released his fourth album <em>Fun Cy</em>, a blissfully heartsick 12-track album packed wh llaboratns om queer artists, om up and ers like Canadian lbian pop act Caveboy to tablished stars like Scissor Sisters’ Jake Shears and Andy Bell himself. <em>Fun Cy</em>, one of the ft dis albums a great year for the genre, buted at #3 on the UK Indie chart, jt weeks after Erasure’s eighteenth rerd <em>The Neon</em> h #4 on the album chart. </p><p data-no-id="4" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">I spoke wh the 56-year-old Bell and Thomas, 38, over Zoom late October. We talked about the queer idols of their youths, the evolutn of the gay pop star, the importance of reprentatn and llaboratn, and creativy the year of Covid. Along the way, some dish, some dance, and a solid primer on 20th century gay culture. </p><style data-emotn="css 18pb4rg">{borr:0;borr-bottom:th solid black;marg:1.875rem 0;clear:both;}</style><hr data-no-id="5" class="css-18pb4rg et3p2gv0" /><p data-no-id="6" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>Andy, where are you Zoomg om?</p><p data-no-id="7" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I'm London until Tuday. And then I'm gettg a flight to Miami and they're gog to let me , I hope. But you never, ever know. My civil partner, who liv there, I haven't seen sce Febary.</p><p data-no-id="8" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave and Rod: </strong>Oh, my God.</p><p data-no-id="9" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>[lghg] I know.</p><p data-no-id="10" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>A long time. Oh, my God.</p><p data-no-id="11" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>It’s gettg to that pot now where I'm gog to explo. Rod, how's gog?</p><p data-no-id="12" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Good. People seem to really like the album, pecially the song that we've done ["Good At Goodby"]. I've had lots of msag sayg 's people's favore song on the rerd, so thank you for beg part of that.</p><style data-emotn="css 8c6v">{posn:absolute;left:-10000px;top:to;width:1px;height:1px;overflow:hidn;}</style><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. 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There was never a moment of g out publicly for eher of you. Did you have a blueprt for that?</p><p data-no-id="15" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Andy, people like you gave me the blueprt, you know? Whout you, I don't thk there would be my generatn of people beg fortably out the entertament dtry. So you and people like Jimmy Somerville the '80s really ma possible to have those nversatns. It's still evolvg and 's still takg a very long time. When I was a teenager, still was not okay Wal to be an out gay man.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="16" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="17" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>So you n't remember when I me out, though, n you bee you would have been five.</p><p data-no-id="18" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>You've always been out wh me, Andy.</p><p data-no-id="19" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>Andy, I was a teenager Ameri, and ma a huge difference.</p><p data-no-id="20" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>For me, there wasn't really anybody. A uple of TV hosts that were kd of over the top mp, but never, ever mentned sexualy. We still have them to this very day. My iend lls them "telly nelli.”</p><p data-no-id="21" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">There were also drag artists, like one drag artist lled Danny La Rue, who was never ever out. He always nied he was gay. Que a few drag queens of that era said they were tops as well, to make themselv seem ls effemate. That’s all a b bizarre.</p><p data-no-id="22" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">As far as mic go, we had the Amerin artists, we had Sylvter and of urse Dive, and gay-intified people like Grace Jon. But the UK, we had Frankie Go To Hollywood, which was more hype than was a gay thg. I mean, I'm not sure which orr was, was Bronski Beat and then Frankie Go to Hollywood. I thk Frankie might have been first, and then was Bronski, but I'll probably be proven wrong.</p><p data-no-id="23" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">I jt remember gog out, and you would have the kd of dis divas, like Earlene Bentley and Miquel Brown dog the old hi-NRG mic. To me, that mic died out wh the clone when the clone died out, wh the big mtach and the leather outfs, the Tom of Fland lookg people. Unfortunately that cid wh HIV and AIDS. So was a really bizarre climate to e out , you know?</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="24" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="25" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Also there was a guy lled Tom Robson. I hadn't really heard of him, but I knew “Glad To Be Gay,” and my uncle had one of his rerds, “2, 4, 6, 8 Motorway.” He was kd of like folk-punk. I remember readg a poster London probably about '83 or '84 that he was dog a Gays Rock semar London. So I went there, and I stayed till afterwards, and I said to him, "Oh, how do you e out pop mic?" [Lghs] You know? Bee I didn't know what you did. So he said he wore a pk triangle on his lapel, and when anybody asked him about , he said, "Oh, you know, that's the emblem of gay liberatn.”</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="26" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="27" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">I cid om then jt to be hont terviews. I thought [1980s UK chart magaze] Smash Hs were really poppy, but they were the most polilly-forwards magaze at that time for teenagers. They did articl wh me, and I would jt say, "Yeah, I live wh my boyiend." They took pictur of me wearg a leotard on top of the piano wh by red slippers and treated like was pletely normal. Which is.<br /></p><style data-emotn="css 1iigb5k">{clear:none;posn:relative;text-align:center;word-break:break-word;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{max-width:100%;}{max-width:100%;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{text-align:left;}}@media(m-width: 48rem) and (max-width: 61.25rem){{max-width:m(20.625rem, lc((100vw - (1rem * 3))/2));float:left;marg-left:0rem;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:m(20.625rem, lc((100vw - (1rem * 3))/2));float:right;marg-right:0rem;marg-left:1rem;}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem) and (max-width: 90rem){{max-width:20.625rem;float:left;clear:left;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:20.625rem;float:right;clear:right;marg-left:1rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{max-width:20.625rem;float:left;clear:left;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:20.625rem;float:right;clear:right;marg-left:1rem;}}</style><div data-ad-exclu="(m-width: 90rem)" data-embed="embed-product" data-no-id="28" size="medium" class="size-medium align-left embed css-1iigb5k etrqhn80"><style data-emotn="css 17pp2fn">{posn:absolute;top:-1rem;}</style><div id="product-5b5eea36-55c6-4e3f-b327-7d5442883d61" class="css-17pp2fn etrqhn81"></div><style data-emotn="css 60ezry">@media(m-width: 48rem){{display:grid;grid-template-lumns:40% 1;grid-template-areas:"product_media product_tails";}}</style><div size="medium" class="size-medium align-left css-60ezry eyaokey4"><style data-emotn="css 10ck1xh">{grid-area:product_hear;-webk-orr:0;-ms-flex-orr:0;orr:0;}{display:block;text-align:center;}@media(m-width: 48rem){{text-align:left;}}(){display:none;}</style><div class="top css-10ck1xh eyaokey2"><style data-emotn="css 6nsryy">{font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;marg:0rem;marg-bottom:0.625rem;marg-top:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.25rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.25rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.125rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><h2 class="css-6nsryy e8seki10">The Neon</h2></div><style data-emotn="css 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y6pcxk">{marg-top:0.9375rem;-webk-orr:3;-ms-flex-orr:3;orr:3;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{marg-left:0.625rem;marg-right:0.625rem;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{marg-left:0rem;marg-right:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{marg-top:0rem;}}</style><div size="medium" class="css-y6pcxk eyaokey1"><div class="css-10ck1xh eyaokey2"><h2 class="css-6nsryy e8seki10">The Neon</h2></div><style data-emotn="css g3y2dc">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;marg-bottom:0.625rem;marg-top:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{-webk-align-ems:flex-start;-webk-box-align:flex-start;-ms-flex-align:flex-start;align-ems:flex-start;}}</style><div size="medium" class="size-medium css-g3y2dc e1a1omje0"><style data-emotn="css 6po5wf">{background:#FF3A30;background-lor:#FF3A30;borr:th solid 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1.25rem;-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-transform:upperse;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;whe-space:pre-le;width:to;background:#FF3A30;background-lor:#FF3A30;borr:th solid #FF3A30;borr-radi:2rem;lor:#000000;display:le-block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacg:0.04rem;le-height:1.3;marg-bottom:0.625rem;marg-top:0.625rem;paddg:0.625rem 1.25rem;-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-transform:upperse;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;whe-space:pre-le;width:to;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.5rem 0.7rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}{outle-lor:body-cta-btn-lk-foc;}{background-lor:#ffffff;lor:#000;borr:th solid #FF3A30;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.5rem 0.7rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 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US","product_external_id":"635"}},"work":{"id":"a332915a-6423-480f-9153-e3973f438607","name":"Trackonomics","is_active":te,"bs_un_id":"ad046b46-538b-42cb-aa54-c3d158875ed6","tails":"","metadata":{},"created_at":"2021-11-04T18:15:18.481570+00:00","last_updated_at":"2021-11-04T18:15:18.481594+00:00"},"product_metadata":{"merchant_id":"276890","merchant_name":"Walmart Affiliate Program","work_name":"IR","work_id":"3","product_id":"635","product_name":"Esquire","product_external_id":"635","8b6b0f67-bc-4d9d-86c6-dff1abae12":{"lk":"subid}","work_name":"ir","append_lk":"subid}&subid3=xid:{xid}","last_updated_at":"2023-06-20 01:47:21.477978"}}}" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Shop at Walmart" data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-brand="MUTE U.S." data-vars-ga-product-id="5b5eea36-55c6-4e3f-b327-7d5442883d61" data-vars-ga-product-price="$13.81" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="4dfc11c9-fba3-40b1-bb24-40a975aa6e53" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="MUTE U.S." data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Pop" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="mr1 | (not set) | (not set)" role="button" data-ab-label="ProdClick" class="product-btn-lk product-btn-lk-multi-retailer en6kra60 css-1i4dhmq e1c1bym14">Shop at Walmart</a></div></div></div></div><p data-no-id="29" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah.</p><p data-no-id="30" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I still really admire all of those dis women like Hazell Dean who went around, did the PAs the clubs, which were really hard work. Probably did about three numbers, wh the shty PA systems, and I don't know how much they got paid. Thank goodns for Grace Jon, bee she always wanted the money before she went on the stage. She knew what those people were like, you know?</p><p data-no-id="31" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>Who were your queer ins, Rod?</p><p data-no-id="32" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>I don't thk I really knew what beg queer was until I was my early teens. In Wal, where I grew up, was very monoculture, jt farmers and al mers. There was no real disurse about sexualy. There were drag queens that I saw on stage at the Swansea Grand Theater or whatever. There's a Brish culture of men a drs, but 's not necsarily lked to beg gay.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="33" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="34" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">One of the first thgs I remember beg like a [sound of a head explodg] moment was Erasure's “Always” vio. I'd obvly seen you dog [Erasure’s 1992 ABBA tribute album] <em>Abba-que</em>, and that should've been a clue, right? [Lghs] When I was formulatg gay inty, was stuff like Bjork, Grace Jon, Erasure, Elton John. Not so much Pet Shop Boys, terms of queer inty. I always jt thought they were jt two very ser men. It felt like a betiful ice sculpture. Whereas I always thought that Erasure were so much fun. You jt really wanted to be there flyg around the sky wh Vce on his ltle platform wh his keyboards.</p><p data-no-id="35" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">And then I gus was probably my affiliatn to dance mic, bee that kd of ma me realize that I was not straight. So the Ace of Base adoratn, like Black Box, Liv' Joy, Cappella. I was always very drawn to the powerful dancg women.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="36" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="37" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I love Cappella.</p><p data-no-id="38" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Queer ins were a really weird thg the UK bee like Andy was sayg, a lot of the TV personali that were gay were such stereotyp. They were such a slap-and-tickle, like, “ooh, <em>matron</em>” kd of thg, which you weren't really able to intify wh, nor were they aspiratnal. A lot of the mastream reprentatn was very ritured. So then as an early teen I started to listen to Erasure and Elton John <em>albums</em>, not jt the sgl. Hearg the songs, like “Sexualy,” the on that would not be the rad songs, you got to unrstand who the artists were through the lyrics. And that was what beme part of the queer inty blueprt, I thk.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="39" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="40" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Rod, n I ask you somethg? I don't know who your label is. It's <em>you</em>, isn't ?</p><p data-no-id="41" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Y.</p><p data-no-id="42" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Yeah, 's your own label. I was jt wonrg bee, to me, the artwork is very remiscent of another huge fluence for me, which was Casablan Rerds and also Carrere, I thk they were om France, weren't they? Carrere Rerds?</p><p data-no-id="43" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah. Casablan, even the generic sleev were so geo, weren't they? It was so betiful. Wh this rerd, the referenc that I sent to the illtrator were old ‘70s dis rerds, like France Jolie and some of those divas, Sylvter, and then like old, '70s, '80s horror movi, like <em>Body Double</em> and <em>Drsed To Kill</em> and thgs like that. And <em>The Ey of Lra Mars.</em> I wanted to be like a kd of queer fashn shoot. Attu Magaze asked me, "Did you have a mood board for the album?" I was like, "Yeah, <em>The Ey of Lra Mars</em>, <em>Querelle</em>, Sylvter, a horror movie.” That's what go on my md.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="44" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="45" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I love <em>Querelle</em> as well. We ed to have gay film nights London. They were unrground, and they would be all nighters. Basilly, you'd go there and you'd be trashed dancg the club, and you uld hook up and stuff like that. But they would show <em>Thunr Crack</em>, or <em>Un Chant d’Amour</em>, somethg om Jean Ge. It was all the different homo-erotic films, which of urse, they're all onle now. But at the time, you had to grab referenc om wherever you uld.</p><p data-no-id="46" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">It wasn't jt the mic, but I suppose mic was the most important thg. The reason I mentned Carrere and Casablan was, even though wasn't explicly homo artists or anythg, jt seemed like the dis beat was the heartbeat to our liv or somethg. Do you know what I mean? It was almost like that's what was keepg you alive was that dis heartbeat.</p><p data-no-id="47" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Yeah. When you listen to the classic queer anthems, they're very dis fluenced. They're very dis produced. And they do have the tradnal dis narrative, which is cryg on the dance floor or dancg through pa, which for me is the survival tactic. And 's what I love about everythg om the Sylvter tracks to Bronski Beat to Erasure. “Love to Hate You,” for me, 's one of my favor of yours, which has that, "Fuck you. I'm feelg like sh, and that’s my power." It's jt amazg.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="48" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="49" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Oh, gosh, for me, what I love is a phasg, four-on-the-floor dm beat. You know, all the time, that's what Donna Summer and Ge Moror ed for “Workg the Midnight Shift.” Do you remember that? I n't remember which album that was om. Was <em>Once Upon a Time</em>?</p><p data-no-id="50" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>I love <em>Once Upon a Time</em>.</p><p data-no-id="51" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Yeah. It was <em>Once Upon a Time</em>. It was like a segue to the whole album, wasn't , gog through? It was almost like a kd of like a mi opera about a knight. And was jt so betiful.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="52" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="53" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>I do the DJ parti, and people e and they’ll suggt one of the amazg dis tracks that I loved. It's jt a mic genre that I don't know a sgle gay person that don't love . Whatever dis, even the tragic dis albums that were knock-offs. I jt fuckg love them.</p><p data-no-id="54" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong><em>Especially</em> the tragic on. For me, Andy, I have to say my hman year of llege, g out a very nservative place, the song for me was “Drama.” That was the absolute soundtrack of that year of my life. So thank you.</p><p data-no-id="55" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Wow. Thank you. You're wele. I love .</p><p data-no-id="56" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>Yeah, and tly was jt one psychologil drama after another.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="57" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="58" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>That's such a big one for the fans. I've opened for Erasure for 27 shows or somethg. And every night after the show, me and my driver Craig would go out to the hoe, and we would be somewhere on a balny and sgg every sgle word of the songs, to the pot where people were tweetg about , like "Oh my God, the openg act is a bigger fan than me." But when “Drama” me on, at the first "guilty," the whole room, 's jt like the wig fli off.</p><div data-ad-exclu="(m-width: 90rem)" data-embed="embed-product" data-no-id="59" size="medium" class="size-medium align-right embed css-1iigb5k etrqhn80"><div id="product-22dcb707-626e-4d1e-98b2-14ffdd5290f8" class="css-17pp2fn etrqhn81"></div><div size="medium" class="size-medium align-right css-60ezry eyaokey4"><div class="top css-10ck1xh eyaokey2"><h2 class="css-6nsryy e8seki10">Fun Cy</h2></div><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" href=" aria-label="Shop at Amazon for Fun Cy" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" 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data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-id="22dcb707-626e-4d1e-98b2-14ffdd5290f8" data-vars-ga-product-price="$14.29" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="b08e982d-123b-4a8c-ba59-757e1b770daa" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Dance & Electronic" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="sale | On Sale" data-vars-ga-sku="B087S9NWM6" data-vars-ga-magento-trackg="1" role="button" data-ab-label="ProdClick" class="product-btn-lk en6kra60 css-1i4dhmq e1c1bym14">Shop at Amazon</a><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" href="}" aria-label="Shop at Walmart for Fun Cy" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url="}" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"a38d02fa-e1b4-4796-badc-da6727f19510","se_id":"8b6b0f67-bc-4d9d-86c6-dff1abae12","is_active":te,"tails":"","metadata":{"trackonomics":{"merchant_id":"276890","merchant_name":"Walmart Affiliate Program","work_name":"IR","work_id":"3","product_id":"635","product_name":"Esquire US","product_external_id":"635"}},"work":{"id":"a332915a-6423-480f-9153-e3973f438607","name":"Trackonomics","is_active":te,"bs_un_id":"ad046b46-538b-42cb-aa54-c3d158875ed6","tails":"","metadata":{},"created_at":"2021-11-04T18:15:18.481570+00:00","last_updated_at":"2021-11-04T18:15:18.481594+00:00"},"product_metadata":{"merchant_id":"276890","merchant_name":"Walmart Affiliate Program","work_name":"IR","work_id":"3","product_id":"635","product_name":"Esquire","product_external_id":"635","8b6b0f67-bc-4d9d-86c6-dff1abae12":{"lk":"subid}","work_name":"ir","append_lk":"subid}&subid3=xid:{xid}","last_updated_at":"2023-06-17 17:42:17.297518"}}}" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Shop at Walmart" data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-id="22dcb707-626e-4d1e-98b2-14ffdd5290f8" data-vars-ga-product-price="$21.50" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="4dfc11c9-fba3-40b1-bb24-40a975aa6e53" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Dance & Electronic" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="mr1 | (not set) | On Sale" role="button" data-ab-label="ProdClick" class="product-btn-lk product-btn-lk-multi-retailer en6kra60 css-1i4dhmq e1c1bym14">Shop at Walmart</a></div></div></div></div><p data-no-id="60" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>The out pop star is a thg that happened my lifetime, and prev to that, all of the reprentatn was direct. It was through divas, or was d. Until Erasure, there weren’t out queer people on the charts, sgg about their liv an open and direct way. Did you feel any kd of phback at the begng, Andy?</p><p data-no-id="61" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>We always felt like was one step forward, two steps back. I mean, was only when we'd had a few hs here the UK, we started gettg als wh Warners and then Elektra. It was almost a tt of their power at rad to promote a gay artist. And you felt like they uld only take so far. It seemed like was gamblg, like they only had a few sps of the wheel that they were allowed to do, or somethg.</p><p data-no-id="62" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">It seemed to me like was almost like a rat where, as far as you went, as high you uld go wh your sgle—which for , was like number 12—like that, was pulled. You're only allowed to go so far. That's how seemed to me, stctively, and my stct's que right ually. </p><p data-no-id="63" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">I felt so privileged that we uld tour Ameri, lerally play a church hall a town. And we’d have people qug up outsi, teenage girls and boys wh gay pri badg on, and say, "Hey, gay pri, Andy," jt as we were arrivg. So I was jt, oh, thankg God…and thankg God that we never had a bomb unr the b. But was kd of, you felt like you uld only go so far. That was the tth. And there are only a certa amount of TV shows that you uld be on. I wanted to nail my lors to the wall and be as gay as possible, which I suppose is jt like those telly nelli on the TV.</p><p data-no-id="64" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">And now, people e out wh a bang and a wallop, and 's all embracg, but seems to last five mut. And then if you're not a ln seller, 's very tough. I’m not plag, but 's a really tough environment, beg a gay man or woman the dtry, you know? And I have to mentn k.d. lang and Melissa Etheridge bee they were there as well, at the same time.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="65" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="66" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>k.d.</p><p data-no-id="67" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I know.</p><p data-no-id="68" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Your fuckg duet wh her. I bought the 12-ch of that recently, and ’s jt so good. It's weird bee I thk what you did and Jimmy Somerville and other artists the ‘80s, is you ma a space for gay mic, as did k.d. lang for lbian reprentatn. But then I feel like when the dtry uld get away wh makg straight artists as gay and mp as you, they fot a lot of the actual gay artists.</p><p data-no-id="69" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">It really wasn't until Scissor Sisters me along that we were actually allowed to be there aga. Before then was the weird thg of the Fast Food Rockers and Soch and people like that jt beg mp, whout lettg an actual gay person do anythg popular media.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="70" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="71" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>There seemed to be a crossover perd, as you say. Durg Brpop, maybe mid-'90s or early '90s, where gay pri beme a rporate event, where you had to wear the wristband. And all of a sudn you had straight people on the vers of gay magaz, which was never vice versa. It was never gay people on the vers of straight magaz. And I'm not sayg that we should leave them out, jt seemed like we had to make this al. It was almost like we opened the door to straight people to be accepted, you know?</p><p data-no-id="72" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>To this day, if Channg Tatum says, “hey, I have a gay , and I’m okay wh him,” then he’s on the ver of the gay magaze wh his shirt off. But workg queer artists still have to fight for that regnn. Do you thk the gay media supports s own muny enough?</p><p data-no-id="73" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>My personal opn is, sce social media, the actual wrten space media has bee so valuable. And we've bee so sensized and so body nsc, 's so dumbed down that even gay magaz, now 's all about sellg stuff. It never seemed to be like that before. It was more polil, bee we were fightg for our rights. Now jt seems to be about sellg t-shirts and Absolut vodka.</p><p data-no-id="74" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Pl the attentn span is so short. It's like, who's next?</p><div data-ad-exclu="(m-width: 90rem)" data-embed="embed-product" data-no-id="75" size="medium" class="size-medium align-right embed css-1iigb5k etrqhn80"><div id="product-dcc0cc82-95d6-41a1-9637-57c07e7e0d56" class="css-17pp2fn etrqhn81"></div><div size="medium" class="size-medium align-right css-60ezry eyaokey4"><div class="top css-10ck1xh eyaokey2"><h2 class="css-6nsryy e8seki10">More Coverage of the Mic That Matters</h2></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" href=" aria-label="Jo Esquire Select for More Coverage of the Mic That Matters" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="false" data-affiliate-work data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Jo Esquire Select" data-vars-ga-media-role data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-id="dcc0cc82-95d6-41a1-9637-57c07e7e0d56" data-vars-ga-product-price="$40.00" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="12fd7b51-a5c6-45f4-bf80-23984bb9adaf" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Guis" data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="(not set) | (not set)" class="product-image-lk eyaokey0 en6kra60 css-15xslai e1c1bym14"><div class="css-zjhp4x e729n7u1"><div data-optimizely="product-image-ntaer" class="css-1pc0key e729n7u0"><img srcSet=" 640w, 980w" alt="More Coverage of the Mic That Matters" tle="More Coverage of the Mic That Matters" src="" width="768" height="768" dg="async" loadg="lazy" /></div></div></a><div size="medium" class="css-y6pcxk eyaokey1"><div class="css-10ck1xh eyaokey2"><h2 class="css-6nsryy e8seki10">More Coverage of the Mic That Matters</h2></div><div size="medium" class="size-medium css-g3y2dc e1a1omje0"><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" href=" aria-label="Jo Esquire Select for More Coverage of the Mic That Matters" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="false" data-affiliate-work data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Jo Esquire Select" data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-id="dcc0cc82-95d6-41a1-9637-57c07e7e0d56" data-vars-ga-product-price="$40.00" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="12fd7b51-a5c6-45f4-bf80-23984bb9adaf" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Guis" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="(not set) | (not set)" role="button" data-ab-label="ProdClick" class="product-btn-lk en6kra60 css-1i4dhmq e1c1bym14">Jo Esquire Select</a></div></div></div></div><p data-no-id="76" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>I thk there's a big disnnect queer culture, but primarily wh whe gay men. They do want to support a straight female diva more than they have time to support queer artists, pecially before they've had a h. When I've been playg a Pri ftival—and, admtedly, I've not had a number one sgle, I've not had a number 100 sgle, really—but if I'm on the bill, I've heard people be like, "Oh, nobody knows who that is." They want Miley Cys or Ariana Gran or whatever. If I had had a h, would be a different story. But n you not have equal space your life for a straight diva <em>and </em>a queer artist? Bee if you don't support your muny, then none of are ever gog to get anywhere.</p><p data-no-id="77" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">There jt don't seem to be that eagerns to adopt your new favore queer artists as there is to adopt your new favore diva. It's a difficult thg bee I love listeng to female artists. I spend most of my life listeng to Mariah Carey. But I do try and look out for new queer artists and support people and spread them around.</p><p data-no-id="78" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Somethg I do like about social media and the way thgs are the days is 's easier to nnect wh other queer artists. Like wh <em>Fun Cy</em>, there's 12 queer artists on . Everybody om Andy to a plete newer. And I wouldn't have been able to do that prev to this social media world. It is easier for people to seek out artists if they want to. I don't know if the sire to do that is still there bee there's such a saturatn of ntent and like 3000 new sgl every week on Spotify. Even though 's easier to put yourself out there, 's a ltle b harr to get people to actively seek you out. And as we know, people are lazy as fuck and n't be bothered.</p><p data-no-id="79" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>To be hont, as well, I don't know who's gay anymore. I don't. Bee there's so many people. But that's what we've been fightg for the whole time. You bee visible to be visible.</p><p data-no-id="80" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>What is tertg about beg my posn or my generatn wh queer inty mic is that you do get to shape the road. I'm tryg my bt to get my pchfork out and fe a ltle path. And what I'm hopg I enurage people to do wh this album is to talk to each other and to work wh other people and to emphasize a sense of muny, which I never had growg up. I uldn't name 10 gay artists growg up that I thought I uld be iends wh, or go on tour wh. And I always felt very isolated. I was this lone satelle, jt kd of orbg a world that I didn't really ever get allowed to.</p><p data-no-id="81" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">We have to emphasize muny and the fact that workg together mak everythg a ltle b stronger and a ltle b more visible. I'm hopg that wh this rerd, which is all llaboratns, emphasiz how much better you are together vers alone and might spire a few people to do the same kd of thg. And that don't have to be wh somebody famo. Like Andy and Jake Shears are credibly famo, and then you have Illtr Blacks or Caveboy who are on the rise. That was potedly done to unteract the fact that people only really re when people are famo.</p><p data-no-id="82" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Rod, do you do by beg a fan of their mic or is jt random leads?<br /></p><p data-no-id="83" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Some of them were iends before I got to know their mic. And then wh Caveboy, for example, my iend worked at Amazon Mic, and she said, "You should listen to this album." And I thought was fantastic, so I jt sent them an email, we end up talkg back and forth bee we had loads mon, and two weeks I had their vols on the rerd.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed="youtube" data-no-id="84" class="embed align-center css-9angbx exa3d2e3"><div class="css-79elbk exa3d2e2"><div class="css-b0nlql exa3d2e1"></div><div class="css-8vvrvc exa3d2e0"></div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener" aria-label="Watch on YouTube" href=" class="exa3d2e5 css-1exe7l8 e1c1bym14"><span>Watch on</span><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/" loadg="lazy" alt="Watch on YouTube" width="to" height="to" class="css-49nnnm exa3d2e4" /></a><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1vn4202 e1f7ylgd0"><img data-dynamic-svg src="/_assets/sign-tokens/e/static/ins/social/;sendary=%2523ffffff" loadg="lazy" alt="youtube in" width="68" height="68" class="css-a0gows e1f7ylgd3" /></button><img alt="This is an image" tle="Vio player poster image" loadg="lazy" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="85" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">All of the people on the rerd are really warm, genue people who re about the world outsi of themselv. And so I would like to e this path that I'm makg or fg or breakg or whatever, to remd people that you n do that and have a lot more fun wh mic, pecially as a queer artist. Jt allow other people to e on board wh you.</p><p data-no-id="86" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>That's really sweet. You should get an alter ego, ll yourself the Vol Snatcher.</p><p data-no-id="87" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>Fally, I am jt noticg, are we all wearg statement T-shirts?</p><p data-no-id="88" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>I've got my Madonna World Pri T-shirt, although 's a b smelly. It was on the floor and I thought was worth one more wear.</p><p data-no-id="89" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>Dave, you have your Bin/Harris shirt.</p><p data-no-id="90" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Dave: </strong>I do ed have my Bin/Harris shirt.</p><p data-no-id="91" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>You got your Bin? Yay!</p><p data-no-id="92" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Rod: </strong>I have my Joan Cack om <em>Addams Fay Valu</em> sweatshirt on. "I want you ad, and I want your money."</p><p data-no-id="93" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Andy, ngratulatns on <em>The Neon</em>, by the way. Top five is fuckg amazg this day and age the UK. It's so credible. I'm so proud.</p><p data-no-id="94" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>Andy: </strong>Thank you very much. Thank you. It's all over an stant, so enjoy while you n. </p><p data-no-id="95" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><em>Bright Light Bright Light’s </em>Fun Cy<em> and Erasure’s </em>The Neon<em> are available now. Rod Thomas DJs the ocsnal "Romy & Michelle's Tea Dance," which you n watch on Twch; he broadsts as @brightlightx2. Andy Bell remas London. </em></p><style data-emotn="css 2ok9l4">{marg-top:1.875rem;borr-top:th solid #595959;}</style><div data-jam-id="thor-b" class="css-2ok9l4 e13rjwo40"><style data-emotn="css f0b5z8">{display:grid;grid-template-lumns:to 1;grid-lumn-gap:0.625rem;paddg-top:1.25rem;paddg-bottom:1.25rem;clear:both;}</style><div class="css-f0b5z8 e19xk9rq8"><style data-emotn="css irehmq">{borr-radi:50%;height:60px;width:60px;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{width:40px;height:40px;}}</style><span class="css-irehmq e19xk9rq1"><style data-emotn="css o0wq4v">{width:100%;height:100%;borr-radi:50%;vertil-align:middle;object-f:ver;}</style><img src="" alt="Headshot of Dave Holm" tle="Headshot of Dave Holm" width="100%" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" class="css-o0wq4v e19xk9rq3" /></span><div><style data-emotn="css 3sqxrq">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;grid-gap:4px;-webk-align-ems:basele;-webk-box-align:basele;-ms-flex-align:basele;align-ems:basele;-webk-box-flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;}</style><div class="css-3sqxrq e19xk9rq7"><span class="css-0 e19xk9rq5"><style data-emotn="css 1yunoig">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-lor:her;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-transform:upperse;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><style data-emotn="css 1kgdfad">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;text-transform:upperse;lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-lor:her;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-transform:upperse;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href="/thor/9774/dave-holm/" class="e1c1bym13 css-1kgdfad e1c1bym14"><span>Dave Holm</span></a></span></div><style data-emotn="css pqlu">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;marg-top:0.625rem;text-transform:upperse;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><div class="css-pqlu e19xk9rq6">Edor-at-Large</div><style data-emotn="css 8u8x58">{display:-webk-box;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1rem;le-height:1.4;overflow:hidn;paddg-top:0.3125rem;-webk-box-orient:vertil;-webk-le-clamp:5;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{-webk-le-clamp:10;}}>*{display:le;} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:CharterItalic,Geia,Tim,Serif;} p{marg:0rem;} p a{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;} p a:hover{text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><div class="css-8u8x58 e19xk9rq4"><p>Dave Holm is Esquire's L.A.-based edor-at-large. His first book, "Party of One," is out now. </p></div></div></div></div><style data-emotn="css ciejky">{clear:both;marg-top:1.25rem;}</style><div id="journey-le" class="css-ciejky e1cslvxz0"></div><div class="css-79elbk eg8z2o90"><div class="css-79elbk e1tp40ll1"><div data-anchor-id="P0-0" class="css-0 e1tp40ll0"></div></div><style data-emotn="css hi6ssp">{display:block;grid-area:article_body;grid-lumn:article_body-start/article_body-end;grid-row:to;jtify-self:center;marg:1.25rem 0 0;}@media prt{{display:none;}}@media(max-width: 30rem){{width:100%;}}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{m-height:28rem;}}@media(m-width: 30rem){{width:488px;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{width:612px;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{max-width:40.25rem;}}</style><div class="css-hi6ssp eg8z2o92"></div></div></div></div><div></div><style data-emotn="css 6b9rfj">{display:block;-webk-flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-ms-flex-preferred-size:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-webk-box-flex:0;-webk-flex-grow:0;-ms-flex-posive:0;flex-grow:0;-webk-flex-shrk:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrk:0;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="no-prt css-6b9rfj ewisyje1"><div><style data-emotn="css 1tuodqg">{width:330px;paddg-left:30px;}</style><div id="ad-article-rail-flt-wrapper" class="vertil-ad css-1tuodqg eqm02p30"><style data-emotn="css w0cuw4">{display:block;posn:-webk-sticky;posn:sticky;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="vertilAdSticky css-w0cuw4 eqm02p32"><style data-emotn="css 9fasmy">{m-height:523px;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;-webk-box-pack:jtify;-webk-jtify-ntent:space-between;jtify-ntent:space-between;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{m-height:138px;}}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{ntent:"";display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;borr-bottom:th solid #E8E8E8;}}</style><div class="standard-article-vertil-ad css-9fasmy eqm02p31"><style data-emotn="css 14b96eg">{m-width:18.75rem;text-align:center;}</style><div id="gpt-ad-vertil-top" class="ad-ntaer css-14b96eg e1hka4w80"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div data-teractive="WatchNext-1" class="css-0 e10xr3vp6"><style data-emotn="css 1pqv15d">{marg-bottom:1.875rem;marg-top:1.875rem;paddg:0 0.938rem;}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{paddg:0 2.5rem;}}</style><div data-embed="watch-next" class="css-1pqv15d e10xr3vp5"><style data-emotn="css 604vx7">{text-align:center;marg:0 to;max-width:60rem;borr-top:0.125rem solid #15263D;}</style><div class="css-604vx7 e10xr3vp4"><style data-emotn="css 1sowyjy">{marg-bottom:1.25rem;}</style><div class="css-1sowyjy e10xr3vp3"><style data-emotn="css ju94x7">{marg:0rem;font-weight:normal;background-lor:#ffffff;lor:#000;borr:0.125rem solid #15263D;text-align:left;width:-webk-f-ntent;width:-moz-f-ntent;width:f-ntent;borr-radi:2rem;display:block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;letter-spacg:0.04rem;marg-top:-1rem;paddg:0.5rem 0.9375rem 0.25rem;text-transform:upperse;}</style><h6 class="css-ju94x7 e10xr3vp2"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><span class="css-0 e10xr3vp1">Watch Next</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><style data-emotn="css un61">{-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;marg:0rem;m-height:to;paddg-top:1rem;text-align:left;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.5rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.875rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:2.125rem;le-height:1.2;}}</style><h6 class="css-un61 e10xr3vp0"> </h6></div><style data-emotn="css b3y6x">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;--aspect-rat:56.25%;} {posn:absolute;marg:0rem;}{ntent:"";display:block;height:0rem;width:100%;}@media(max-width: 30rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((45% / 1.16) + 20px + 1.66em);}}@media(m-width: 30rem) and (max-width: 48rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((45% / 1.43) + 20px + 1.66em);}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem) and (max-width: 64rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((33% / 1.40) + 20px + 1.66em);}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((25% / 1.36) + 20px + 1.66em);}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((25% / 1.46) + 20px + 1.66em);}}</style><div class="__rp-ntaer css-b3y6x e6l0f0"><style data-emotn="css 1yu8e3d">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;width:100%;height:100%;} .__rp-ntaer{height:to;}</style><div data-embed="embed-vio" class="vio-player css-1yu8e3d e1ou1fny0"><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><style data-emotn="css w2pm9t">{background-lor:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.4);borr:.1875rem solid whe;borr-radi:50%;lor:#fff;cursor:poter;height:3.75rem;left:50%;posn:absolute;-webk-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-moz-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-ms-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-webk-transn:all 0.4s;transn:all 0.4s;width:3.75rem;z-x:1;}.e1f7ylgd6:hover {background-lor:rgba(33, 150, 245, 0.8);lor:#ffffff;}@media(m-width: 20rem){{top:26%;}}@media(m-width: 30rem){{top:29.5%;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{top:32.5%;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{top:34.5%;height:5.625rem;width:5.625rem;borr:.28125rem solid whe;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{top:35%;}}@media(m-width: 75rem){{top:35.8%;}}</style><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-w2pm9t e1f7ylgd1"><style data-emotn="css 1lhf7lq">{fill:#ffffff;height:1.4rem;vertil-align:middle;width:1.45rem;}@media(m-width: 48rem){{width:2.3125rem;height:3rem;}}</style><svg xmlns=" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" style="fill: var(--primary, #000);" role="img" tle="Play" class="css-1lhf7lq e1f7ylgd2"><tle>play in .