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class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ AlertMsage-jgAjgo bVCFRm jEGgOR bmhHIl alert-msage"><p>To revis this article, vis My Profile, then<!-- --> <a href="/acunt/saved">View saved stori</a></p></div><button class="BaseButton-bLlsy ButtonWrapper-xCepQ gJNxgH bSqbcl button button--utily close-alert-button" data-event-click="{"element":"Button"}" data-ttid="Button" role="button" type="button"><span class="ButtonLabel-cjAuJN bBWXSg button__label">Close Alert</span><div class="ButtonInWrapper-gFdzAL bPDyTT button__in-ntaer"><svg class="ButtonIn-YqaGo iwlhuX button-in in in-close" focable="false" viewBox="0 0 32 32" width="32" height="32" xmlns="><path d="M16 14.586l6.364-6.364 1.414 1.414L17.414 16l6.364 6.364-1.414 1.414L16 17.414l-6.364 6.364-1.414-1.414L14.586 16 8.222 9.636l1.414-1.414z" fill-le="nonzero"></path></svg></div></button></div></div><div class="StackedNavigatnSectnLogo-gMsxSu dwOfTV"><a href="/" class="StackedNavigatnLogoLk-byNqXP dmvHfj"><picture 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data-ttid="ContentHearContaer" class="ContentHearContaer-cGKRbE knDxNq"><div class="ContentHearHedAccredatnWrapper-GFiQf cDNVlV"><div data-ttid="ContentHearTleBlockWrapper" class="ContentHearTleBlockWrapper-cjmSKp eiGjZk"><div data-ttid="ContentHearRubric" class="ContentHearRubricBlock-LmpbT tPofh"><div data-ttid="ContentHearRubricDateBlock" class="ContentHearRubricDateBlock-kAQcZP fTFWxD"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX gPBNpL bric ContentHearRubricContaer-eTudtt iRsSlw"><a class="RubricLk-gRWSOU cwyjHY bric__lk" href="/entertament"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Entertament</span></a></div></div></div><h1 data-ttid="ContentHearHed" class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ ContentHearHed-NCyCC iUEiRd jdcWfa isouMH">How Can Queer TV Move Beyond Cliché? Three Screenwrers Discs</h1></div><div class="ContentHearAccredatn-lfctVB etVsnJ ntent-hear__accredatn" data-ttid="ContentHearAccredatn"><div class="ContentHearDek-bIqFFZ eijTxK">Wrers om <em>A League of Their Own</em>, <em>Our Flag Means Death,</em> and <em>Quantum Leap</em> talk about tired LGBTQ+ trop and more. </div><div class="ContentHearByle-kmPyCa emiglw"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW jvZaPI rponsive-asset ContentHearContributorImage-cvjZXn epCAJC"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa ContentHearContributorImage-cvjZXn epCAJC rponsive-image"><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 80w" siz="66px"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 90w" siz="66px"/><img alt="" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></picture></span><div class="ContentHearByleContent-dpPmNn DRFq"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl ContentHearByl-cZqgyJ bHLeKI"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH hdWCIC byle byl__byle" 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dxAvXx"></div></div></asi></hear></div><div data-attribute-verso-pattern="article-body" class="ArticlePageContentBackGround-cNiFNN kJkLmH article-body__ntent"><div class="ArticlePageChunksContent-etcMtP bwyLBj"><div data-ttid="ArticlePageChunks" class="ArticlePageChunks-fLyCVG eSsnKa"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p><em>Our gural <strong>Queer on TV</strong> package, produced partnership wh GLAAD and released njunctn wh the annual</em> <a data-offer-url=" class="external-lk" data-event-click="{"element":"ExternalLk","outgogURL":"" href=" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank"><em>Where We Are on TV</em></a> <em>report, is all about queer visibily on televisn today. At once a celebratn of LGBTQ+ stori and a ll to actn, this seri exam the state of reprentatn on TV while also highlightg the val work beg done to expand .</em> <a href="><em>Read more here.</em></a> </p><hr/><p>Not too long ago, the only LGBTQ+ characters on TV were anodyne bt iends who only existed to support straight protagonists; now, we’re watchg a gaggle of queer high school girls <a href=">rortg to nnibalism</a> the Canadian wilrns. That journey om <em>Will & Grace</em> to <em>Yellowjackets</em> has part been ma possible by the luxury of choice: now that there are hundreds of queer characters stead of jt a handful, the on of reprentatn is somewhat lsened. There’s more eedom to make the sort of msy, plited, LGBTQ+ stori that feel te-to-life.</p><div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--article-mid-ntent" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--article-mid-ntent nsumer-marketg-un__slot---ntent"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><p>Queer and trans wrers workg televisn have always wanted this eedom; ’s jt that they are only now gettg the chance to tell the stori on major works, and wrers’ rooms where they are not the only members of the muny prent. Plenty of dtry barriers rema, but as a new wave of LGBTQ+ TV wrers ntu to break them down, they’re also gettg to ask excg qutns about the future of queer and trans storytellg: How do we wrtle wh <a href=">the trop of yteryear</a>? How do we draw om our own experienc while also matag boundari? How n we break away om age-old archetyp? And how n we get that work done as unwieldy a place as Hollywood?</p><div class="Contaer-bkChBi byNLHx"></div><p>To get an sir perspective, <em>Them</em> ved three LGBTQ+ TV creators to our gural Queer on TV Wrers Roundtable. Shaka is a wrer, actor, and director on NBC’s <em>Quantum Leap</em>, wh a background theater. Prevly, she appeared on <em>Transparent</em> and as a seri regular on <a href="><em>Difficult People</em></a>. Zackery Alexzanr Stephens is a edian who pulls double duty wrg on <em>The Amber Ruff Show</em> and the send season of HBO’s <a href="><em>Our Flag Means Death</em></a>. Michelle Badillo is a wrer on Prime Vio’s <a href="><em>A League of Their Own</em></a>, havg prevly wrten on <em>One Day at a Time</em>, and acted on shows like <em>Search Party</em> and <em>Vida</em>. All three are excg risg figur the queer TV landspe, challengg the norms of what LGBTQ+ storytellg n and should acplish across genr.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="k5350c"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p>Below, the wrers open up about wrtlg wh the issu surroundg LGBTQ+ reprentatn, the power of fdg universaly specificy, and why ’s high time for horny queer stori on the small screen.</p><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad---ntent"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot---ntent" data-no-id="4b94lu"></div></div><p><em>This nversatn has been eded and nnsed.</em></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-1 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p><strong>When you’re wrg an LGBTQ+ character, how do you wrtle wh existg archetyp? Do you wre the “gay bt iend” wh a twist? Do you throw out the playbook and start om scratch?</strong></p><p><em><strong>Zackery Alexzanr Stephens</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I thk for me pends a ltle b on the story. When I approach a queer character, I try to make somethg that’s thentic to my world, eher people I know or am spired by. I also thk about the tone. If I’m wrg a satiril edy, then y, maybe I do need a gay who shows up 10 mut late wh an iced ffee. That’s a trope that we unrstand. </p><p>For me, the biggt thg I foc on is tryg not to wre [while] worryg about how a cis lens will perceive or how a straight person will perceive . It’s about eeg myself of the expectatns that I have to appease an dience that’s outsi of the group that I want to wre for.</p><p><em><strong>Shaka</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I thk one of my strong sus — right now, anyway — is this bridge-buildg I’m dog a lot of cis het “normie” muni, tryg to brg radil queer characters to faiar trope stori. I’m really to takg the thematic stori that we know really well — stctural stori like g-of-age and loss of nocence and the big meta them that you n fd all over the place — and jt jectg them wh the most real-to-my-life queer characters that I n njure. Mostly my iends who I’m tryg to get jobs for!</p><p><em><strong>Michelle Badillo</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I gus pends what you’re wrg on. If you are dog a satire, then you are nscly playg wh trop and archetyp. I thk the hope is that we have enough space the work that we’re dog to create full characters who feel like people, which se you don’t have to worry about the trop so much bee you’re creatg somethg that feels like a real person. </p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="8m0u3y"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p>I thk we have to al wh more when you e to a show and there is a character who feels very tropey and then ’s a matter of beg like, “Can we not do that?” Or, “How n we prerve what you want whout me wantg to throw up?” But I don’t say like that.</p><asi aria-hidn="te" class="PullQuoteEmbedWrapper-sc-EoVjf fQbAzo"><div class="PullQuoteDerativeBorr-sc-iUyOLj fAzNVP"></div><div class="PullQuoteEmbedContent-sc-kTcfhx eoUd"><p>“If I’m wrg a satiril edy, then y, maybe I do need a gay who shows up 10 mut late wh an iced ffee. That’s a trope that we unrstand.”</p></div></asi><p><strong>You’ve all talked about wrg for your muni and drawg om your experienc. Do you have specific boundari about what you’re willg to draw om your own life and your own muni?</strong></p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I thk some ways I feel like both everythg is on the table and nothg is on the table. It’s very suatnal for me. I thk most people n’t create whout drawg on their own liv and sometim that’s om a place of trma or sometim ’s om a place of joy, but we are sentially all drawg on our own experienc or the experienc of people we know. </p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-2 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p>In the ntext of a wrers’ room, if I feel safe and feels relevant to the story, I basilly feel ee to share anythg. But spac that feel a ltle b ls safe — or if somebody’s askg me qutns that feel irrelevant to the story and are [more] about them wantg me to do some kd of work bee they don’t feel like Googlg — then that’s where I draw the le of this now feels unsafe and weird. But generally speakg, I would e anythg the right ntext.</p><p><em><strong>S</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I am like Queen Overshare. My whole reer up to the pot that I got a wrers’ room was tobgraphil performance. I’ve jt ma a pattern of puttg all out there. But the wrers’ room, is totally different bee you have the dynamics and you’re sort of like, well, “How much of my own trma do I want to me for your benef?” It’s a reful dance.</p><p>I’ve been blsed to be rooms where I feel really supported to take risks sharg what I thk om my own life will brg more pth and plexy and nuance to the characters that we’re velopg. I thk ’s really juicy to be able to brg my whole self to the work, but also I’m not here to explo myself or re-trmatize myself to tell stori. I don’t have to jt recreate what my knowledge is. I n envisn new trans futur and that’s what I’m really exced about.</p><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I try to foc on brgg thgs that I have perspective on now. Whether ’s levy or I’m far enough away om [somethg that] someone wants to make a joke about, I’m not gog to fd myself needg to ll my therapist the bathroom an hour later. I thk that’s my le: thgs that I n fd funny or thgs that I n look back on. Sure, I have been dumped on the Coney Island Ferris wheel — which is a very specific dumb thg that I n lgh at now — but maybe that week, I was not the place the wrers’ room to be like, “Let’s put this a show.” </p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="hne3z"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p><strong>Very specific New York breakup spot. That’s real. Lately, ’s been rehg to see more specificy and diversy when to queer characters on shows like the on you all work on. Could you talk a b about the procs of avoidg the whe queer monolh that pervas a lot of televisn narrativ while workg wh the dtry?</strong></p><p><em><strong>S</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I mean, I thk people know what’s up. I thk execs are gettg the memo that dienc want more plex reprentatn across the board, and also that ’s actually moizable. It’s profable for them to be takg risks and beg clive, so ’s actually <em>not</em> a risk. I have found that [ helps] to lead wh our “why” when we’re pchg our stori up the ladr.</p><p>For example, the <em>Quantum</em> <em>Leap</em> episo I wrote last season was about a young trans Lata woman high school who wanted to play on her basketball team. And I ma really clear om the jump that this is a trans Lata character based off someone my life who I wanted to honor, and that we were gettg at the tersectn of racism and transphobia. So need both of those thgs to h that target. Once we ma that clear, we got a lot of phback. Those work not they e and sometim you thk like, “Wow, did I miss the mark or did they?” </p><p>But the nuance of that character was never somethg I had to fight for. We had voic around the table who were brgg thenticy to the character as she was beg wrten. And then when we were dog the stg, was amazg to see the way that NBCUniversal stood up to say, “We want to do this right om the begng.” I don’t thk that jt om altism; I thk that om readg the room.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-3 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> It really pends on the shownner for me: what show they set up and who they put on their show. Sometim you n work on a show and you n say, “Oh, this character’s so funny, wouldn’t be so funny to have Patti Harrison do ?” Now, all of a sudn, you have this trans Asian woman who’s volved your show. And whether the character’s explicly trans or not, you get this really funny, great person and jt opens up a different world.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="mtbb"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p>But I fely thk all starts wh who gets to be charge of nng the show and who gets to create the show. The people the middle of the room — the staff wrers, the lower-level wrers — don’t dictate how diverse the show is. Ially, as we move forward, we get shownners who are more progrsive and people higher plac so that om the jump, ’s different than what would’ve ever happened om a cis whe guy. I thk we’ve seen a lot of progrs movg forward. </p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I’ve been very lucky — and sort of unique — that I’ve worked on a lot of shows that start already left-of-center. So om the creative si, at least, you’re not railg agast this thg to beg wh or havg to urse-rrect so much. We’re startg om an entrenched perspective that’s <em>not</em> the whe cis straight monolh. </p><p>It’s really how you populate your room. It’s hard if there’s [only] one person to be like, “um…” Then they thk you’re the police. But then when you have more voic, ’s ls sry to do that, even if you have a whe straight cis boss. People are like, “Oh, hey, <em>five</em> people the room thk that that is B.S.”</p><asi aria-hidn="te" class="PullQuoteEmbedWrapper-sc-EoVjf fQbAzo"><div class="PullQuoteDerativeBorr-sc-iUyOLj fAzNVP"></div><div class="PullQuoteEmbedContent-sc-kTcfhx eoUd"><p>“I don’t have to jt recreate what my knowledge is. I n envisn new trans futur and that’s what I’m really exced about.”</p></div></asi><p><strong>Zackery, given your work on</strong> <em><strong>The Amber Ruff Show</strong></em><strong>, I was cur how you approach wrg jok for and about the queer muny wh that kd of newsy late night ntext, pecially durg a time where there is all this anti-gay and anti-trans news g out.</strong></p><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> It’s so funny. I thk I’ve wrten one queer thg for <em>The Amber Ruff Show</em> ever the two seasons I’ve been there. I have a really great staff that I get to work wh that I absolutely love. Jenny Hagel, who’s our head wrer and an executive producer on the show, is a queer woman and she’s so great and she tak thgs on. </p><p>But also our straight wrers are phenomenal. Ian Man wrote this betiful piece after the Texas legislatn was happeng last year and was lled <a href=">“How to Spot a Trans Kid.”</a> And was jt the funnit, most empathetic thg. “They’re ually unr five feet tall.” At the time, I was not even a place where I uld thk about the edy of , but ’s nice to be able to go to that show and not be treated where I have to be the queer wrer or I have to be the nonbary wrer. And bee almost all of are Black, I don’t have to be “the Black wrer,” eher. I get to wre about so many other thgs that I wouldn’t ever get to on other shows.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="jmblm9"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p><strong>Shaka, I wanted to ask about wrg and directg your episo of</strong> <em><strong>Quantum Leap</strong></em><strong>. How did wearg both of those hats impact your procs?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-4 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p><em><strong>S</strong></em><strong>:</strong> It was wild. I mean, I was wrg, producg, directg and gut-starrg the episo. But the directg was kd of happenstance. Morenike Joela Evans was directg and I was shadowg her through prep. I had been really clear wh my objective wh <em>Quantum Leap,</em> like,“Hey y’all, I want to direct, maybe next season, so let’s get me shadowg so everyone feels fortable.” Then, on day one, Morenike got pulled for COVID. </p><p>We have a producg director — someone who the stud is lerally payg to be on staff se that happened, [who uld] step and direct. But that night I texted all the execs and I was like, “Y’all, you n’t jt pull the neart cis straight guy jt bee we’re a bd. This whole episo is a ‘put me , ach’ episo, so put me .” And was so perfect bee, as Zackery [mentned] earlier, we have that shared language when we’re workg wh our muny. </p><p>[It was great] to be able to tell this story wh the trans actors. I uld hop ont of the mera and be like, “Let me clarify what this scene is really about. We all know what this is. This is an ternal moment that we n unrstand as trans people.” And then I n step away and let Josielyn [Aguilera] or Trace Lysette make a meal out of this scene, bee we as trans people know what is really about.</p><asi aria-hidn="te" class="PullQuoteEmbedWrapper-sc-EoVjf fQbAzo"><div class="PullQuoteDerativeBorr-sc-iUyOLj fAzNVP"></div><div class="PullQuoteEmbedContent-sc-kTcfhx eoUd"><p>“Sometim you want to wre a versn of the world where we’re jt talkg about queer joy, but I thk that joy is hard-fought and hard-won. And I thk as a muny we should be able to talk about the very terrible thgs that happen and how we thrive through them or sometim jt survive.”</p></div></asi><p><strong>Michelle, I’m cur, how do your actg and wrg rm each other? How has appearg on shows fluenced your screenwrg procs?</strong></p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> Well, fely before I did more profsnal actg, there was the trope of the actor who for a le, basilly, and they’re like, “Well, what’s my motivatn?” And ’s like, “Babe, you’re walkg the room and eatg a bagel! You don’t have a motivatn. Shut up.” And then, when you do gut stuff like that, you’re like, “Wa, but what <em>is</em> my motivatn?” </p><p>It’s harr a different way if you have a ton of l and the character is fully flhed out; you n fd more and you have somethg to work om. So terms of my wrg, I’ve gotten way better about those ltle throwaway l. They better feel really, really, really specific. I mean, you don’t want to spend all day on , but [you want to] feel like that person had a life before they me on and after.</p><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> That mak me thk of <a href=">that scene</a> om <em>The Comeback</em> where Lisa Kudrow is jt walkg around the kchen the whole eveng and dog her one le of—</p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> “I don’t need to see that!”</p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="xfo2w9"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p><strong>I love a bagel motivatn. I wanted to ask about the</strong> <a href="><strong>“bury your gays”</strong></a> <strong>trope, which has obvly been a major issue TV and film for s.</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-5 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p><strong>I feel like as more and more nuanced storyl have been told on-screen, there have been more discsns about how a queer character’s ath don’t necsarily have to fall to that trope by flt anymore. So what are your thoughts on wrg that — and have you enuntered that issue your work before?</strong></p><p><em><strong>S</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I’m workg on a piece right now where I have to kill off a beloved character. Part of my queer experience growg up as a trans gay kid the ’90s was ath, ath everywhere. And I of urse got really sick of the msagg that that’s what my sexualy was worth or [what was] leadg to. At the same time, I feel like queer people have a lot of healg to do around the sacred aspect of ath — that is part of the ntuy of life and part of our rponsibily to unrstand om a sacred, re-of-passage perspective. </p><p>A big M.O. of me general is puttg queer people back touch wh their accs to the dive and ath is a huge piece of that. Gettg to discs, gettg to terrogate, gettg to challenge and grieve ath on our own terms, our own ways, wh our own voic is an act of reclamatn and is healg. So I’m favor.</p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I thk all of are pretty sick of beg ed as trma pots. Jt how gross that feels. Sometim you want to wre a versn of the world where we’re jt talkg about queer joy, but I thk that joy is hard-fought and hard-won. And I thk as a muny we should be able to talk about the very terrible thgs that happen and how we thrive through them or sometim jt survive. But I thk when <em>we</em> have ownership of those stori, ’s ually okay. When <em>they</em> do, that’s when you feel that icky, terrible feelg.</p><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I thk if I was told, “You nnot kill someone else bee if you do, no matter what, ’s gog to be a trope,” ’s gog to rtrict some of the stori I n tell. I thk about <em>It’s a S</em>, which me out a uple of years ago, and people were like, “Oh, do we need another show about HIV and AIDS?” And that show for me was so different and nuanced and you uld tell really me om Rsell [T Davi’] perspective and that, for him, was the time to wre about .</p></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="op619q"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bDFJoo"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bectqB body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p>I thk the other part [wh “bury your gays”] is not only are they dyg, but ’s also ually purely about their sufferg. The number of lbian movi we’ve all seen where ’s like, “ugh, they n’t touch, they n’t be together, and then one of them di and they never got to have their moment” — that, for me, is a trope of no, not that. But if ’s this betiful movie where ’s the two queer women who are together, and they get to fd their passn and their love, and they’re havg a life together, and <em>then</em> somethg tragic happens and we have a reason for — and ’s om this unique queer perspective that breaks all the other l — I’m not gog to be mad about .</p><p>I want to see thgs that that wrer fds to be pellg and they’re dog for a reason other than to jt sentially be like, “Queer people are miserable and they’re tortured and they’re never gog to be happy.” As long as that’s not the msage that the wrer’s nveyg, I thk anythg’s possible.</p><p><strong>One more qutn: If you uld pick a sgle adjective to scribe the kd of LGBTQ+ stori you want to see more of on TV movg forward, what would you choose?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-6 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p><em><strong>S</strong></em><strong>:</strong> I jt want to see horny stori. I’m sure there’s more liberatory… but horny is part of liberatn, let’s not fet.</p><p><strong>Absolutely.</strong></p><p><em><strong>ZAS</strong></em><strong>:</strong> Hontly, I thk horny stori are the future. I’m gog to vote horny. I’m gog to say full horny. Horny is the future.</p><p><em><strong>MB</strong></em><strong>:</strong> We’re all gog to say horny.</p><p><strong>I thk that’s the perfect note to end thgs on.</strong></p><p><em><strong>Get the bt of what’s queer.</strong></em> <a href=" target="_blank">Sign up for <em>Them</em>’s weekly newsletter here.</a></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK eRggVV grid grid-margs grid-ems-0 PaywallInleBarrierWhWrapperGrid-fyrGfS jyGBoi"><div class="GridItem-buujkM kHPPIF grid--em"><div class="body body__le-barrier article__body article__body--grid-margs"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"><asi class="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper-iBnuqk lfXXa-D" data-ttid="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper"><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--paywall-le-barrier" role="prentatn" aria-live="pole" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--paywall-le-barrier"></div><div 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class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg bDvSkO summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="As a Queer Killg Eve Fan, I Feel Betrayed" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl XMZX summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX gPBNpL bric SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN lapGFj summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Entertament</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM dVrbhU summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk--unrle-disable" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href="/story/killg-eve-fale-queer-fans" target="_self"><div data-ttid="ClampWrapper" class="ClampWrapper-kZxfkB hTTNGO clamp SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ kBFaWv summary-em__hed"><div class="ClampContent-hilPkr jVhSBH"><div class="SummaryItemHedTag-TWblf gxaOcP" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">As a Queer <em>Killg Eve</em> Fan, I Feel Betrayed </div></div></div></a><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY dHMSJg summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH ecFEgL byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd bCbgyH gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Sara Clements</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff jCBznZ summary-em summary-em--has-le summary-em--article 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summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="The “Trans Bt Friend” Is Hollywood’s Hottt New Accsory" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl XMZX summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX gPBNpL bric SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN lapGFj summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">TV and Movi</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM dVrbhU summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk--unrle-disable" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href="/story/trans-bt-iend-hollywood-trope-gay-bt-iend" target="_self"><div data-ttid="ClampWrapper" class="ClampWrapper-kZxfkB hTTNGO clamp SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ kBFaWv summary-em__hed"><div class="ClampContent-hilPkr jVhSBH"><div class="SummaryItemHedTag-TWblf gxaOcP" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">The “Trans Bt Friend” Is Hollywood’s Hottt New Accsory</div></div></div></a><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY dHMSJg summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH ecFEgL byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd bCbgyH gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Nade Smh</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff jCBznZ summary-em summary-em--has-le summary-em--article summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left 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media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="11 LGBTQ+ TV Shows We Can’t Wa to Watch 2023" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl XMZX summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX gPBNpL bric SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN lapGFj summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">TV and Movi</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM dVrbhU summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk--unrle-disable" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href="/story/lgbtq-tv-shows-2023-preview" target="_self"><div data-ttid="ClampWrapper" class="ClampWrapper-kZxfkB hTTNGO clamp SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ kBFaWv summary-em__hed"><div class="ClampContent-hilPkr jVhSBH"><div class="SummaryItemHedTag-TWblf gxaOcP" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">11 LGBTQ+ TV Shows We Can’t Wa to Watch 2023</div></div></div></a><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY dHMSJg summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH ecFEgL byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd bCbgyH gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Rendy Jon</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm cuPhiJ ad ad--read-more"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--read-more" data-no-id="uqng"></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff jCBznZ summary-em summary-em--has-le summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below summary-em--layout-posn-image-left summary-em--layout-proportns-50-50 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm cuPhiJ" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb cPpCwE summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg bDvSkO summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz hlQxkn"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg bDvSkO summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="All the LGBTQ+ Movi and Shows Psed Durg the Hollywood Strik" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl XMZX summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX gPBNpL bric SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN lapGFj summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">TV and Movi</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM dVrbhU summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk--unrle-disable" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div data-ttid="ClampWrapper" class="ClampWrapper-kZxfkB hTTNGO clamp SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ kBFaWv summary-em__hed"><div class="ClampContent-hilPkr jVhSBH"><div class="SummaryItemHedTag-TWblf gxaOcP" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">All the LGBTQ+ Movi and Shows Psed Durg the Hollywood Strik</div></div></div></a><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi cuRXdL summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY dHMSJg summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH ecFEgL byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd bCbgyH gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Samantha Allen</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryCollectnGridToActnWrapper-gnReGN eGayfk"></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="TaboolaWrapper-hMVdpE iYfBhy"><div 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