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While has been reviewed by human transcribers, may nta errors. Please review the episo d before quotg om this transcript and email wh any qutns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Love now and forever.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Did you fall love?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Jt tell her I love her.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 4</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Love is stronger than anythg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 5</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">For the love of love.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 6</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I love you more than anythg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 7</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">(SINGING) What is love?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 8</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here’s to love.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 9</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Love.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From “The New York Tim,” I’m Anna Mart. This is “Morn Love.” Today, on the show, we have a story about how, sometim, a fay is held together by untths. The aren’t necsarily outright li, but they’re evasns. They’re avoidanc. They’re the silenc that ver somethg up.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The say is wrten by David Khalaf. In his fay, the untth was about how David is gay and very happily married to a man. David’s whole fay kept this a secret om his grandmother. His say is lled, “The Hoe Where My Hband Don’t Exist.” And begs wh David returng to his hometown to go to a fay gatherg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I rang the doorbell of my grandmother’s hoe, and then I remembered to pull off my weddg rg. And I slipped to my pocket, and I was someone else, an actor playg a fictnal versn of me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I got married, my fay ma a cisn for my grandmother. They agreed that everyone uld know about my hband, except her. They feared she would disown me, exriate my father, blame my mother. My grandmother was om the old untry, and she lived by old l.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">My grandmother sat the same spot on the uch where I’ve always known her to be, but now she was breathg through a tube nnected to an oxygen tank. David, she lled out, raisg her arms. I’m dyg, she said. My grandmother has been dyg for 20 years. On that day, however, her shnken body clared that tth a way her voice never uld. I love you, Nana, I said. Cancer, she said. I love you, I replied.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Our relatnship had been built on s of two-mute nversatns about her most recent ach and pas. I knew ltle about her past, other than that she’d had a tumultuo life Palte, beg married off to an olr man and beg a mother while her teens. By the time polil turmoil and fay fightg forced her to flee to the Uned Stat, she’d given birth to three more children and lost her hband.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Why did you move up there, she asked. Why leave your fay? I like Portland, I said. I uldn’t tell her about my hband and me watchg the ra om our porch, or our brisk hik to see sweepg views of the Columbia River. She’d never see the weddg photos of unr the misty St. John’s Bridge. Are you livg wh anyone? The qutn wasn’t pryg, merely cur. What n I tell her? Y, Nana, I’m livg wh the love of my life.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I looked at my nt, the only other person listeng . Am I livg wh anyone, I asked. I didn’t know if there had been efforts to ordate this fictn. Had anyone bothered to give me a backstory? A roommate, I said. The word reverberated like an ntatn, as if I had summoned the ghosts of every gay person who had ever been forced to e this pretense, a word to protect and erase.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">For s, I hid my feelgs om the world and suffoted them to nothgns. From the moment I accepted my hband’s proposal of marriage, I promised I would never forsake him. Our engagement was not only a promise to him, was a promise to myself that I would never hi aga. But here I was. Are you happy, my grandmother asked. I love you, Nana, I said.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But now I was speakg to someone else, to the man who did not exist her hoe.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That afternoon, my mother had stayed home wh my hband to help him feel ls alone, to help all pretend this was not a chara. They were watchg a movie or makg lunch or chattg about his fay and the reasons for his trangement om them. I reached to my pocket and felt the smooth ntours of my weddg rg. In the darkns of my pocket, my fgers slipped through . Whatever he was dog, I knew he was dog , wh his rg on.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It turns out, that wasn’t the last time David saw his grandmother. I talked to him about their fal vis, after the break.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">David Khalaf, thank you so much for readg your say.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thanks for havg me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So your “Morn Love” say was about a vis to your grandmother’s hoe California that you thought would be the last time you ever saw her alive. But you actually saw her one more time. Can you tell me about that fal vis?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I was travelg down to Los Angel for the holidays. And she was not dog well. And so my hband and I drove down om Portland to Los Angel to see her so that I uld vis wh her one last time.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, ’s tertg, bee your say, you thought that’d be your last time talkg to your grandmother. So a way, perhaps, sounds like you said everythg you need to say. So this tly fal vis, this vis to the hospal — I don’t know — did you feel like — what was different about ? You’d said what you need to say, so what was left?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, there really wasn’t much left. But the send I walked and the send she saw me, she regnized me and said, David. And I me over and took her hand, and she took my hand. And we jt sat there for a moment.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You drove to the hospal wh Constanto, wh your hband. Where was he durg all this, when you were the room holdg your grandma’s hand?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Constanto waed for me the r. So he —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He was jt outsi.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He was jt outsi, yeah. I thk even for jt a spl send, enterta the ia of brgg him , but I thk if I brought him the room, I would eher have to tell her who he was. And as someone who was clearly ailg at the time, that felt maybe like a cel thg to do, to give her somethg difficult to wrtle wh. And was eher that or lie about who he was. And I’m over lyg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How did you feel as you left the hospal?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[SIGHS]: I felt sad. I thk part of me was grievg a ltle b, not jt losg her, but also a b of sadns about the lims of our relatnship and how was a smaller, more superficial relatnship than I would have wanted.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk if there was any other emotn, there was a b of relief, and, one, relief for her bee she’d been pa for many years, relief for me bee she was the last person on Earth who I had agreed to perpetuate a lie for. And so I knew once she had passed, that I uld 100 percent fully, tly, be myself the world. And there was no one on Earth who I need to pretend to.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You spoke at your grandmother’s funeral. What did you talk about your logy?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, so my folks had asked a few of the grandchildren to share a memory of their grandmother. And my sister and my agreed. I cled. And they asked aga, and I cled aga. But —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re kd of lghg, but I feel like that’s kd of an unfortable thg. They asked you, and you said no. Tell me about why you reacted that way.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]:: Yeah, well, I almost took offense to them even askg me bee I had lerally wrote a lumn “The New York Tim” about my distant and almost tranged relatnship wh my grandmother. And they had read , and then they e to me and say, hey, would you share a memory of your grandmother? And one of the origal reasons that I cled was bee I uldn’t thk of a good memory to share.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">We had had a lifetime of such short, superficial nversatns. And so when I agreed to speak, I cid I would share about the last time I saw her at the hospal. And that was meangful bee I felt like we did have a moment there. And was meangful bee the love of my life, the most important person to me, was outsi a parkg lot. She never fully saw me. And I never fully saw her. And that that’s OK, that we still loved each other bee she was my grandmother, I was her grandson, and we loved each other bee of that. And maybe that’s enough.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, I have to say, I’ve never heard a logy like that ever before. But I image that if I haven’t heard a logy like that, a lot of folks the room also had not heard a logy as hont as that. What were the reactns om your fay after you gave this speech?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I was very happy wh what I said, but not everyone was. And particular, my dad, who was a very kd and gentle man, was fur. And he felt like the memory disrpected my grandmother. And to him, my logy was selfish.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk he felt like I ma about me, rather than jt sharg somethg bright and cheery about her.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And for me, was important to accurately characterize the nature of our relatnship. And we never, at least, for my part, never felt like I was vulnerable wh her. And when you aren’t vulnerable wh someone, you’re strangers.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m thkg about how there were all the opportuni you had to troduce Constanto to your grandmother. And for so many reasons, every time, you cid that wasn’t the right time. But I want to know, like an alternate world where you had troduced the two of them, what would you have wanted your grandma to know about Constanto, to know about your hband?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What I’d want her to know is that I’m loved, and I am plete. And she was always ncerned about gettg married. So there’s this part of her that always wanted to be plete through the creatn of fay. And so I feel like if there were some way which I uld get her to accept and unrstand that he is fay, that she would be able to accept that and she would be able to be happy for me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">David, thank you so much for sharg your memori of your grandma wh me. Thank you so much for this nversatn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">david khalaf</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thanks for havg me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">anna mart</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You n fd a lk to David Khalaf’s full “Morn Love” say our show not. “Morn Love” is produced by Julia Botero, Crista Djossa, and Hans Buetow. It’s eded by Sarah Sarasohn. Our executive producer is Jen Poyant. This episo was mixed by Rowan Niemisto, and our show was rerd by Maddy Masiello. The “Morn Love” theme mic is by Dan Powell. Origal mic by Marn Lozano and Dan Powell. Digal productn by Nell Gallogly. The “Morn Love” lumn is eded by Daniel Jon. Miya Lee is the edor of “Morn Love” projects. I’m Anna Mart. Thanks for listeng.</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url()" class="css-197zlhc e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-ah35qo ehra6vc0"><a href=" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="Morn Love logo" src="><span>Morn Love</span></span></a><span class="css-17nzab0 ehra6vc1"><span class="css-sj5ozi ehra6vc2">Subscribe:</span><ul class="css-hx5n"><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Apple Podsts</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Rad Public</a></li></ul></span></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-wfiq9c edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-15oz550 edye5kn2">My Invisible Hband</h1><h2 class="css-syyj5g edye5kn3">David Khalaf’s fay hid his hband Constanto om his 96-year-old grandmother for years.</h2></div><span class="css-xpptmx edye5kn4"></span><button type="button" class="css-w62hzm" aria-haspopup="te" aria-label="Show Aud Transcript"><div class="css-1vd84sn"><svg xmlns=" width="24" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 20" fill="#F8F8F8"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M0 0H24V20H0V0ZM3 7H21V9H3V7ZM21 11H3V13H21V11ZM3 15H21V17H3V15ZM11 3H3V5H11V3Z" fill="#F8F8F8"></path></svg><span class="css-16bt4xd">Transcript</span></div></button></div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabx="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="whe" fill-opacy="0.9"></circle><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-tle" role="regn"><hear class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-tle">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to Morn Love</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-ttid="transcript-playback-ntrols"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabx="99" type="button" class="css-1t9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns=" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--lor-ntent-sendary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--lor-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns=" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><tle>bars

ONE OF N.L.'S FIRST MARRIED GAY UPL LOOK BACK WH PRI
'PASSAG' DIRECTOR NOUNC 'DANGERO' NC-17 RATG ON A FILM PICTG A GAY LOVE STORY
YEP, HE’S GAY
MY HBAND IS GAY BUT WE’RE MARRIED WH TWO KIDS AND HAVE GREAT SEX
HIS STORY/HER STORY: “I THK MY HBAND IS GAY”
WHEN GAY MEN (MIS)MARRY STRAIGHT WOMEN: BONNIE KAYE'S STORY
IS MY HBAND GAY? SIGNS OF A GAY HBAND
WHO IS JOSEPH ZIEGLER, THE GAY IRS WHISTLEBLOWER HUNTER BIN PROBE?
HOW TO COPE WHEN YOUR SPOE COM OUT AS GAY

ONE OF N.L.'S FIRST MARRIED GAY UPL LOOK BACK WH PRI

We had an arranged marriage and we also have a baby now, but I have a feelg that my hband is gay and that he married me to hi that om his fami * my husband is gay story *

Power and David Philpott had to make their own ke topper by glug groomsmen figur togetherFrom “partner” to “hband”: meet one of the first married gay upl N. Philpott and Power may have been the first gay uple the provce to be legally married, but the trail they blazed was soon followed by many, wh the St.

'PASSAG' DIRECTOR NOUNC 'DANGERO' NC-17 RATG ON A FILM PICTG A GAY LOVE STORY

When a straight woman marri a gay man, what do she experience? * my husband is gay story *

Me and my fiancee are about to get married soon and he is by im gay....

In his fay, the untth was about how David is gay and very happily married to a man. The word reverberated like an ntatn, as if I had summoned the ghosts of every gay person who had ever been forced to e this pretense, a word to protect and s, I hid my feelgs om the world and suffoted them to nothgns. A woman has revealed how she’s married to a gay man and the pair have two young kids together.

YEP, HE’S GAY

Is my hband gay? is an unthkable qutn to many wiv, and some hbands do turn out to be gay. Learn the signs of a gay hband. * my husband is gay story *

The mom-of-two scrib herself as straight while her hband Matthew intifi as gay or pansexual, admtg he is “more attracted to men than women”.

MY HBAND IS GAY BUT WE’RE MARRIED WH TWO KIDS AND HAVE GREAT SEX

Inially, there were accatns that Ziegler, as a gay Democrat, was biased toward Bin, but now some Republins say his inty shows he's fair and reliable sayg the IRS was hampered the vtigatn. * my husband is gay story *

Brynn met Matthew for the first time at church early 2016 and jt a few dat , he revealed he was gay. @gayprofsordad / SWNS.

HIS STORY/HER STORY: “I THK MY HBAND IS GAY”

Matthew had known he was attracted to men sce he was a teenager, but he belonged to the Church which do not enurage homosexual relatnships. The mom-of-two, who liv Ypsilanti, Michigan said: “He looked straight at me and said ‘Brynn, I’m gay.

I thk that many more people are gay, bi, pan, or other, than have ma that known openly. “I’ve heard gay men say that they n’t even image tryg to be sexual wh a woman, and I have never felt that way. The mom-of-two scrib herself as straight while her hband Matthew intifi as gay or pansexual, admtg he is “more attracted to men than women.

WHEN GAY MEN (MIS)MARRY STRAIGHT WOMEN: BONNIE KAYE'S STORY

”@gayprofsordad / SWNS. While Brynn is a straight woman, Matthew’s sexualy isn’t lear and he has intified as gay, pansexual and bisexual. You n follow Brynn and Matthew on Instagram at @gayprofsordad.

Her story: We had an arranged marriage and we also have a baby now, but I have a feelg that my hband is gay and that he married me to hi that om his fay.

I have a gay iend and whenever he to our parti, he tells me my hband is clearly gay and he is hidg behd this marriage.

IS MY HBAND GAY? SIGNS OF A GAY HBAND

She recently nonted me but I was appalled to know that she thought I was gay and that our marriage is a faça.

I don’t know how will she advice by Nidhi Behl Vats - Founr at StoryofsoulsFor Her: I feel the most important thg is to unrstand what beg gay/bisexual is? I recently spoke wh Bonnie Kaye, thor of Straight Wiv, Shattered Liv: Stori of Women wh Gay Hbands, among other books, and host of Bonnie Kaye’s Straight Wiv Talk Show on BlogTalkRad. Bonnie has spent much of her adult life first livg wh and attemptg to love a gay hband and then helpg other women the same mis-marriage suatn.

WHO IS JOSEPH ZIEGLER, THE GAY IRS WHISTLEBLOWER HUNTER BIN PROBE?

Bee I know untls gay men who were once married to straight women, wh varyg gre of short and longer-term happs and misery, I wanted to discs this topic, and I wanted to do so om the straight wiv’ perspective.

Our discsn was wi-rangg, begng wh her own marriage to a gay man and progrsg to how she was able to move on post-marriage, eventually beg a rock for other women siar suatns. So if somebody told me they’d tried somethg but they didn’t like , there would be no reason for me to thk that the person was gay.

HOW TO COPE WHEN YOUR SPOE COM OUT AS GAY

But I certaly didn’t want to marry a gay man.

He was a karate teacher, martial arts, a strong guy, looked like Sylvter Stallone, and gay was not one of the issu I thought about wh him. There were issu wh him om the start, but nothg to make me thk that he might be gay.

I thk my hband of 30 years is gay.

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Contents:

ONE OF N.L.'S FIRST MARRIED GAY UPL LOOK BACK WH PRI

'PASSAG' DIRECTOR NOUNC 'DANGERO' NC-17 RATG ON A FILM PICTG A GAY LOVE STORY

YEP, HE’S GAY

MY HBAND IS GAY BUT WE’RE MARRIED WH TWO KIDS AND HAVE GREAT SEX

HIS STORY/HER STORY: “I THK MY HBAND IS GAY”

WHEN GAY MEN (MIS)MARRY STRAIGHT WOMEN: BONNIE KAYE'S STORY

IS MY HBAND GAY? SIGNS OF A GAY HBAND

WHO IS JOSEPH ZIEGLER, THE GAY IRS WHISTLEBLOWER HUNTER BIN PROBE?

HOW TO COPE WHEN YOUR SPOE COM OUT AS GAY

BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM MY HUSBAND IS GAY STORY

I thk my hband of 30 years is gay.

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ONE OF N.L.'S FIRST MARRIED GAY UPL LOOK BACK WH PRI

'PASSAG' DIRECTOR NOUNC 'DANGERO' NC-17 RATG ON A FILM PICTG A GAY LOVE STORY

YEP, HE’S GAY

MY HBAND IS GAY BUT WE’RE MARRIED WH TWO KIDS AND HAVE GREAT SEX

HIS STORY/HER STORY: “I THK MY HBAND IS GAY”

WHEN GAY MEN (MIS)MARRY STRAIGHT WOMEN: BONNIE KAYE'S STORY

IS MY HBAND GAY? SIGNS OF A GAY HBAND

WHO IS JOSEPH ZIEGLER, THE GAY IRS WHISTLEBLOWER HUNTER BIN PROBE?

HOW TO COPE WHEN YOUR SPOE COM OUT AS GAY

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* MY HUSBAND IS GAY STORY

BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM MY HUSBAND IS GAY STORY