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ontend-pencraft-Box-module__borr-radi-12--AmQy9 social-preview-box post"><div class="social-image-box"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset=" /><img src=" siz="100vw" alt loadg="lazy" width="120" class="ontend-ponents-rponsive_img-module__img--Pgjj2 social-image" /></picture></div><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-directn-lumn--Rq7pk ontend-pencraft-Box-module__paddg-y-8--exiCC ontend-pencraft-Box-module__paddg-left-12--eE6bp"><h4 class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__size-16--fFowu ontend-pencraft-Text-module__le-height-20--p0dP8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__weight-bold--Ps9DB ontend-pencraft-Text-module__font-text--QmNJR ontend-pencraft-Text-module__lor-primary--ud4Z0 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__ret--dW0zZ ontend-pencraft-Text-module__hear4--hH3cg">Two Conversatns wh Marv Gaye</h4><div class="pencraft 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class="available-ntent"><div dir="to" class="body markup"><h1 class="hear-wh-anchor-widget"><div id="§" class="hear-anchor-widget offset-top"><div class="hear-anchor-widget-button-ntaer"><div href=" class="hear-anchor-widget-button"><svg xmlns=" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-lep="round" stroke-lejo="round" class="hear-anchor-widget-in"><path d="M10 13a5 5 0 0 0 7.54.54l3-3a5 5 0 0 0-7.07-7.07l-1.72 1.71"></path><path d="M14 11a5 5 0 0 0-7.54-.54l-3 3a5 5 0 0 0 7.07 7.07l1.71-1.71"></path></svg></div></div></div></h1><div class="ptned-image-ntaer"><figure><a class="image-lk is-viewable-img image2" target="_blank" href=" data-ponent-name="Image2ToDOM" rel><div class="image2-set"><picture><source type="image/webp" srcset=" 424w, 848w, 1272w, 1456w" siz="100vw" /><img src=" width="1456" height="1929" data-attrs="{"src":"" class="sizg-normal" alt srcset=" 424w, 848w, 1272w, 1456w" siz="100vw" fetchprry="high" /></picture><div class="image-lk-expand"><svg xmlns=" width="16" height="16" viewBox="0 0 24 24" fill="none" stroke="#FFFFFF" stroke-width="2" stroke-lep="round" stroke-lejo="round" class="luci luci-maximize2"><polyle pots="15 3 21 3 21 9"></polyle><polyle pots="9 21 3 21 3 15"></polyle><le x1="21" x2="14" y1="3" y2="10"></le><le x1="3" x2="10" y1="21" y2="14"></le></svg></div></div></a></figure></div><p>I was raised by a soul mic lovg, fger snappg, Saturday night party-givg mother who had a particular affectn for “love men” like Otis Reddg, Al Green and that major y Marv Gaye. I would stand on my tippy to to watch the yellow & brown Tamla 45s of “Hch Hike,” “Stubborn Kda Fella,” etc. sp on my mother’s Motorola High Fily rerd player. As an adolcent and teen, the Let’s Get It On and I Want You albums were stctnal manuals the art of sctn, while all righteo, newly named “black Amerins” hailed What’s Go’ On’ as Marv’s fg artistic statement.</p><p>By the time I’d grown up and bee a mic reporter, Marv’s reer was cle. A new generatn of sexy sgers (Teddy Penrgrass, Rick Jam, Frankie Beverly) were mand, and while Marv was releasg some eply, personal, unmercial mic (Here My Dear, In My Lifetime) he had been exile Europe, far om his mons, but also his re dience and artistic roots. </p><p>When I joed Rerd World January 1981, his latt album, ‘In Our Lifetime,’ was beg released on Motown. But there would be no publicy tour and not much promotn the the time Marv was livg London and the terview we did was nducted by phone. I remember feelg both exced and timidated at the prospect of talkg to someone who’d been the soundtrack of my childhood.</p><p>The terview self, which went on for about thirty mut, ma me sad sce Marv was clearly a man at odds wh his untry, his past, and himself. I liked ‘In Our Lifetime,’ though wasn’t the class of his prev work. Apparently Motown had remixed the album whout his permissn and some songs had been leted. </p><p>On the album ver Marv is picted as an angel and a vil, which for him illtrated that “the mic als wh the two prcipal forc we all stggle wh life, the good and evil one’s environment. Havg emerged om que a long negative perd I am lookg for many years of good posive energy,” he said. </p><p><span>Marv left Los Angel bee was “a psychologil hellhole… I wanted more love, more rpect, as an artist. There were lots of thgs said about me there that tarnished my image. So I plan to give life on this si of the ocean a try for the next few years. I’ll be ncentratg all my work here</span><a href=" rel>[1]</a><span> . I also have a home Senegal, Wt Ai. My roots have been traced back there, so I tend to spend a good al of time there as well.”</span></p><p>I’m not sure if Marv actually spent any time Ai durg this perd but he exprsed a ep tert the ntent. “I’m listeng to a lot of third world mic, reggae and var Ain mics bee I thk that is the directn thgs are headg toward. The Ain market is a few years away om matury, and I have hop of workg wh some iends om Nigeria and buildg a pany there… I feel I will only be actively volved makg mic another eight to ten years, so I want to do as many thgs as possible while I n. I want to venture outsi what people say I n or nnot do. The mercial aspects are not as important.”</p><p>‘In Our Lifetime’ would be Marv’s last album wh Motown. Though the spl wasn’t yet official Marv ma clear was imment: “Motown is one of the ft pani the world, but they are very mercially oriented and they want my mic to e om a tradnal R&B pot of view. I love that mic, but om an artistic pot of view there are other thgs I want to do.”</p><p>Speakg of his creative procs makg ‘In Our Lifetime’ Marv ma feel very improvised. “All the mic me off the top of my head. Not one note of mic was wrten out beforehand. I walked , had the micians the stud and jt did . Later I add lyrics and the sweeteng. On and off took a year and a half to rerd wh two or three months between lengthier ssns. I am pable of workg faster than that, acrdg to what the budgetary nstrats are. But I don’t have to sh, so I don’t.”</p><p>When the nversatn was over I felt very trated. I did phone terviews wh folks all the time, but the list of qutns I had for Marv about his reer was long and we hadn’t ma a nt them. The whole thg felt like a tease. We’d talked about a mor album que briefly. I was eply dissatisfied. Moreover, I was begng to form the ia of dog a book about Motown Rerds but, om this talk, I’d gotten nothg substantial om Marv about the label. It was a wasted opportuny. How often do you get to terview Marv Gaye?</p><p>About a year or so later I began hearg stirrgs of a Marv Gaye eback. Word leaked that he’d been signed to Columbia by s aggrsive black a&r head Lark Arnold. Wh a new powerful label behd him Marv released “Sexual Healg,” a dm mache driven mid-tempo track that fed early ‘80s sensualy as powerfully as “Let’s Get It On” had the early ‘70s. It domated every format of Amerin rad as the ‘60s legend ma a rerd perfect for the sonics of ‘80s rad. “Sexual Healg” sold lns of pi, the album ‘Midnight Love’ went platum, and Marv returned to Ameri for a long, sure to be triumphant tour. </p><p>In 1983 Mician magaze assigned me to terview Marv. A date was set for me to fly out to speak wh him the Bay Area near the start of his tour. Fally my chance to really terview him had arrived.</p><p>It was my first trip to the Bay and Terri Hte, a publicist at Fantasy Rerds, had offered to pick me up and let me stay at her Mar County home stead of stayg at a hotel. As Terrie drove across the Bay Bridge I got an tense migrae headache and felt credibly nseo. The same malady stck me down on my first three trips to Los Angel. I’d suffered om migra sce I was a schoolboy but somethg about the cross-untry trips triggered a particularly paful bout. So I spent that first night layg down wh a ld cloth on my forehead.</p><p>The next eveng, still feelg a b agile, Terri and I went to the Circle Star Theater, one of those once popular suburban venu where the stage revolved, ensurg everyone a ontal view of the show, as well as the back of the band. It was always a horrible ia but a few of the spots have survived to this day. Still the awkwardns of the venue had no impact on the performance, which was sublime. Backed by a twenty-four-piece band, cludg three percsnists, three electric keyboardists and a seven-piece horn sectn, Marv was betiful voice, performg all his standards, pl a medley of his duets wh Tammi Terrell, Mary Wells and Diana Ross that had the band scramblg through their charts tryg to keep up. </p><p>Much the material om his mid-‘60s n of hs was re-arranged or slowed down by mil director McKley Jackson. His classic “I Heard It through the Grapeve,” already omo, felt even heavier a slowed-down versn that brought out s bluy unrpngs. This wasn’t the same Marv Gaye performance om his “Live” album. The range of material was wir and, bee he performed several tracks om ‘Midnight Love,’ the sound much more ‘80s wh synthizer-lan tracks bumpg up agast the more stripped down ‘Let’s Get On’ era material and the lh orchtratns of ‘I Want You.’ Marv’s abily to serve his soul roots, while adaptg to ‘80s technology wh “Sexual Healg” and other tracks, is one of the reasons he’s remaed a remarkably ntemporary figure whereas so many other soul men have been relegated to nostalgia. Of his peers only Ronald Isley has stayed as val for younger listeners and been as fluential to upg sgers.</p><p>The next afternoon Terri drove me down to San Mateo, a town south of San Francis where Silin Valley was growg. We drove past Apple’s then offic. Across the street their now sprawlg mp was beg nstcted. Not far down the road om Apple was a very nonscript motel lled the Villa, where Marv was stayg.</p><p>At his door, I was greeted by a black woman a bad wig holdg a hot plate. She knocked on the bedroom door and announced me. Insi the room Marv sat next to a bed a whe terry cloth robe, a stockg p and a facial mask that obscured his featur. Two men sat on the other edge of the bed. All three of them had their ey traed on a fight on ABC’s Wi World of Sports. </p><p>So much of the talk this terview wh Marv was nducted to the si of his head and, to some gree, the rhythms of the fight dictated the terview. Every now and then an “I told you he’d walk to that right” ment would terpt his thoughts on songwrg or God. </p><p>I asked most of the qutns on my list, though I didn’t get as much pth the all the answers as I would have liked. Still I me away thkg this was a man whose own ner dialogs were both his salvatn and his curse.</p><p>I started by talkg about how good he was on the stage the night before. Marv reputedly didn’t like performg live but felt like he’d a good time. “Well, he admted, “I did. But ’s sort of a mixed emotn thg. I’m performg unr strs, but ’s okay, bee I get a lot of posive reactn om the dience and those who love me. I n exist on that alone. But I n pick up negative rpons jt as surely.”</p><p>“What kd of negative thgs do you pick up on?”</p><p>Marv said, “I don’t know. I feel. That’s all I n say. I feel and I know my hoe and my crowds. I’ve been dog this for about twenty-five years, so to a pot when you n sense hostily or love. I n also tell you almost how many adorg fans I have the dience as opposed to crics and people who are there jt out of cursy. I gus I put out what I get back. I’m very hont my performanc. I’m not mechanil at all onstage. So naturally beg a performer like that I will have some good shows and some bad shows. I prefer that way. I work acrdg to how my heart feels.”</p><p>You n’t talk wh Marv Gaye and not discs the sexual mic. From his ‘60s perd through “Let’s Get It On” to “I want You” and “Sexual Healg,” few sgers have embodied the joy and pa of sensual experienc as he has. Though rather quat now, a song like “You Sure Love to Ball” om 1973, really phed the envelope lyrilly for mercial R&B and n be seen as part of the journey that brought R. Kelly and the raw lyrics of 21st century volist like the Weeknd and Byson Tiller.</p><p>For Marv, however, rawns was never the ultimate goal. “Oh, I thk my approach to sensualy and sexualy is that of a subtle exhibnist,” he said. “I n’t al wh the raw fact. I’d rather be teased by a woman before I get . That’s the French way: you make a person thk you are gog to do somethg but never do until you are ready. I kd of borrowed that om the French. I actually won’t be strippg down to shorts or anythg like that, though they may thk I will. But that’s out of the qutn.”</p><p>After we shared a lgh I followed up by notg that ‘In Our Lifetime’ was eply ground the nflict between love and sex, sex and spirualy, while on ‘Midnight Love’ the songs were much more straightforward. “Marv,” I asked, “has that nflict been rolved your md?”</p><p>“No nflicts have been rolved,” he said quickly. “But I thk I have taken the personal edge off of on ‘Midnight Love.’ I tend to wre of my personal tert. In this album I tend to generalize about the suatns. Perhaps I will go back to wrg more personally on the next one.”</p><p>“How long do take you to wre?”</p><p>“If spired – sends, mut. If ’s ntrived – hours, days, months.”</p><p>This answer surprised me. Very few (make that zero) artists I had terviewed to that pot my life, and none I would the future, would adm that anythg they released was “ntrived.” I had to ask if he thought anythg on this new album f that scriptn.</p><p>“A uple of songs,” Marv replied. “I have to thk about a mute. ‘Midnight Lady’ is one that’ll give you a good example of what I mean. You’re surprised I’m so hont. My honty has gotten me trouble the past, but one n’t be a te artist whout .”</p><p>Songwrg, and the life journey that spir , was the huge theme of our nversatn and led to a few unexpected plac. I noted that sce ‘What’s Go’ On’ he’d moved away om directly addrsg polics his lyrics, though he did mentn Bob Marley, albe subtly, on the song “Third World Girl.”</p><p>“I’m surprised you picked up on that,” he replied. “I’m not about to palize on a man’s ath. I tried to refer to him directly out of rpect. Thank you.”</p><p>I prsed him, sayg “The tim seem to ll for the kd of mentary you provid on ‘What’s Go’ On.”</p><p><span>“It seems to me that I have to do some soul searchg to see what I have to say,” he said evenly. “You n somethg</span><a href=" rel>[3]</a><span> . Or you n say somethg profound. It lls for fastg, feelg, prayg, lots of prayer, and maybe I n e up wh a more spirual social statement to give people more food for thought.”</span></p><p>“I take this procs hasn’t been gog on wh you for que some time.”</p><p>“I have been apathetic bee I know the end is near. Sometim I feel like gog off and takg a vatn and enjoyg the last ten or fifteen years and fettg about my msage, which I feel is a form of beg a te msenger of God.”</p><p>“What about dog what Al Green did and turn your back on the whole thg?”</p><p>This reference to his soul sgg peer (and rival) Green, who had dramatilly renounced secular mic to bee a full-time mister, stirred Marv’s passns and ma his answers more emphatic. “That’s his role,” he said of Green. “My role is not necsarily his. That don’t make me the Devil. It’s jt that my role is different, you see. If he wants to turn to God and bee whout s and have his reputatn be that, then that is what should be. I am not ncerned wh what my role should be. I am only ncerned wh pletg my missn here on earth. My missn is what is and I thk I’m prentg myself a proper way.”</p><p>“What is your missn?”</p><p>“My missn is to tell the world and the people about the upg holot and to fd all of those of higher nscns who n be saved. The rt n be left alone.”</p><p>“Yet your new album als purely wh romance.”</p><p>“For legimacy I need worldwi exposure. This is a chance for the world to regnize Marv Gaye so that ultimately I n get my msage across. If ’s through romance, etc. then that’s what is. I have to al wh God.”</p><p>Usg his songwrg as a wdow, we moved to talkg about his relatnship wh Motown. Marv had a legendarily tense relatnship wh Motown, due to his marriage to (and divorce om) owner Berry Gordy’s sister Anna and his own stubbornns – stubbornns that lead to ‘What’s Gog On’ and a strg of trospective releas the late ‘70s. In 1979 Marv put out a sgle lled “Ego Tripp’ Out” that was to be the lead sgle for an album tled ‘Love Man,’ but that rerd was pulled om the market and that album was never released. Instead they’d released ‘In Our Lifetime,’ the album that I’d terviewed Marv about for Rerd World.</p><p>Marv explaed, “That was a sgle wrten about myself at a time when I was tryg to get a handle on my ego, which was always at the foreont. I’m very self-centered and I feel like I’m . When one is that ill, one has to al wh their ego. They ever really gave me a chance to plete and when I did plete , for some reason, they didn’t put on the album. The album didn’t e out the way I had done . It’s like takg a Leonardo da Vci and submtg to your agent and your agent has another artist pat a different se or somethg on top of . I view people tamperg wh my art the same ntext.”</p><p>I thought one of the all-time weirst llectns was his 1977 ‘Live London’ album, which was three sis of live material (which was not very different om his 1974 album rerd Oakland) and the si-long funky dis jam “Got to Give It Up.” It seemed to me that the ‘Live’ material was jt filler to get people to pay LP pric for a 12-ch sgle. Des later the rerd would be the centerpiece of a trial accg Rob Thicke and Pharrell Williams of pyright gement wh 2013 h “Blurred L”</p><p>Marv didn’t seem to fd “Got To Give It Up” very important. “The reason I did that was that was the clost I was gog to get to dis,” he said, “spe what some forc wished. I thought was ridiculo and I refed to get to that madns. That was as close as I was g. I jt said I was gog to ri out that crazy dis number.”</p><p>Bee Marv would emerge as a signifint sger-songwrer the ‘70s I was cur how much put did he have on his “productn le” 1960’s Motown hs. “In those days I probably wrote seventy-five to nety percent of every song my name was on,” he relled. “As a wrer those days I was very genero and I gave a lot. If someone ntributed a word or a chord I’d give them twenty-five percent of a song.”</p><p>Which raised the qutn of how to fe the ntributns of the Motown ssn players aka the Funk Brothers? I’d already terviewed many of the Motown ssn players, cludg bassist Jam Jamerson, who all claimed they should have been given songwrg and productn creds. Marv said, “Jamerson was a geni. The ltle group that they had there was the Motown sound and half the cred for the productns should go to the micians, who were not only great micians, but great producers and arrangers as well. They didn’t get enough cred. I don’t feel that’s very good. It’s unfortunate.”</p><p>“Why did that happen?”</p><p>“Bee they didn’t make happen. You give your put out of love and expect nothg or you give and sign a ntract. If you want somethg say somethg. You say ‘I’m not givg up until I sign somethg and get somethg for .’”</p><p>“Do you look back on those days at Motown?”</p><p>“I rarely al the past. I thk ’s a waste of time and emotn. One should be ncerned wh the now and not even the future. What’s important is if I get the next breath or not. It’s now that’s important.”</p><p>Before I left I wanted to hear his thoughts on perhaps the most memorable performance of his reer – the natnal anthem at the 1983 Natnal Basketball Associatn All-Star game Los Angel. In some ways that stellar terpretatn laid the groundwork for his eback, sce s electronic, yet soulful mil arrangement, perfectly plemented his velvety tenor a way siar to “Sexual Healg.” </p><p>“It’s difficult to al wh the natnal anthem bee of s stcture. It was wrten for an operatic type of voice. A soul sger isn’t exactly fortable sgg nor is any other ethnic person really. So I thk a untry full of ethnic natnali we should sg acrdance wh what is most fortable. I n’t sg whe and say I am totally whe. I have to sg so mov me. Sce I am a soul sger I mt sg wh soul. Those who are aaid of the sound n’t sg my way and I n’t see sgg their way. If I’m tegorized as a soul sger, I’m gog to sg like one.”</p><p>“How about llg yourself a pop-soul sger?”</p><p>This cracked Marv up. “I don’t know what that is. Unls they say that we’re gog to let you make halfway, that you’re gog to e up here where ‘the big boys,’ the whe boys are, so you n be half soul. You see pop artists are the on who make the money, but soul artists are not supposed to make a lot of money. They are exploable. Pop means makg money. Soul means explo.”</p><p>“Some say Lnel Richie sold his soul to make money.”</p><p>“Well,” Marv said, “I don’t know. I have a lot of rpect for Lnel. But if he did I hope he got a good al.”</p><p>This Mician magaze terview (and a Village Voice article later spired after Marv’s ath) are two of my proust piec of journalism. But both almost didn’t happen.</p><p>Once I arrived back at Terri’s place after talkg wh Marv I was anx to play the tape. But when I rewound the ssette jammed my tape rerr. Usg a pen pot and, I believe, a fork I spent much of the eveng slowly unspoolg the prec tape. I was a panic, lerally prayg that wasn’t so damaged as to be unplayable. Back home Brooklyn I transcribed the agile ssette, fearful I’d wasted Marv’s time. Thankfully I got all. The flight out, the migrae, the show, the terview and the near tape disaster ma for an troductn to the Bay Area I have never fotten.</p><p>The next time I saw Marv Gaye perform was memorable too, but horribly so. As his Sexual Healg tour traveled across Ameri wasn’t gettg glowg reviews, about the show or his ndn. The dgs, fay tensns, and other mons that had chased him out of Ameri had returned. Erratic shows. Late to the stage. Coe u se. The were the words I heard over the phone at my Billboard sk. </p><p>The Rad Cy Show I saw late ’83 was nowhere as spired as what I’d seen San Mateo that sprg. He was unsteady on stage and there was no joy his performance. His voice was weathered, particularly his angelic falsetto. The show end awkwardly. Many the dience were gmblg as they exed the theater. When I thk of Marv Gaye now I do my bt not to dwell on that Rad Cy show. </p><p><span>Instead my thoughts return to that magil night at the Circle Star Theater, my terviews wh him and his brief, betiful history of black mic poem </span><a href=" rel>[5]</a><span> at the Motown 25 broadst. Michael Jackson’s “moonwalk” is the most celebrated performance om that NBC special, but Marv talkg and sgg at the piano was hntg. And so is my memory of Marv that facial mask.</span></p><p>[To read the entire terview wh Marv Gaye purchase The Nelson Gee Mixtape, a llectn of terviews, say and old articl, which is available only via for $28.]</p><div><hr /></div></div></div><div class="visibily-check"></div><div class="post-footer"><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flexGrow--mx4xz ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-jtify-space-between--NvIcg ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-align-center--rSd6h ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-16--TpblU ontend-pencraft-Box-module__paddg-y-16--ohCEm ontend-pencraft-Box-module__borr-top-tail-themed--e17yZ ontend-pencraft-Box-module__borr-bottom-tail-themed--eVwFY post-ufi"><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-8--HFpIK"><div class="like-button-ntaer post-ufi-button 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Gaye</h4><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__size-14--Ume6q ontend-pencraft-Text-module__le-height-20--p0dP8 ontend-pencraft-Text-module__weight-normal--s54Wf ontend-pencraft-Text-module__font-text--QmNJR ontend-pencraft-Text-module__lor-sendary--WRADg ontend-pencraft-Text-module__ret--dW0zZ ontend-pencraft-Text-module__body4--Pl3xY"></div></div></div><div class="pencraft ontend-pencraft-Box-module__ret--VfQY8 ontend-pencraft-Box-module__display-flex--ZqeZt ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-jtify-space-between--NvIcg ontend-pencraft-Box-module__flex-gap-8--HFpIK share-dialog-buttons-wrapper"><button tabInx="0" type="button" class="button share-actn"><div class="actn-in"><svg role="img" width="20" height="16" viewBox="0 0 20 16" fill="none" stroke-width="1.8" stroke="#000" xmlns="><g><tle></tle><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M12.1303 0.000379039C10.9833 -0.00959082 9.87819 0.431464 9.05309 1.22855L9.04556 1.23593L7.79145 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