bars</tle><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1vd04" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->27:50</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->27:50</div></div></div></div></hear><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxyw"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-9wqu2x">Keanu Reev Will Be Your Mirror</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">No matter the role, the actor is reflectg your sir of what you want him to be.</h4><time dateTime="2022-05-12T20:12:03.000Z" class="css-1e605">2022-05-12T16:12:03-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Alex Pappamas, you’ve wrten a book.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, how about that?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s lled “Keanu Reev: Most Triumphant: The Movi and Meang of an Irreprsible In.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But I have a qutn for you. Is possible to even get near the bottom of Keanu Reev?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk he might be an unknowable in. I s before you as someone who’s thought about him for a whole year, and I don’t know if I know him any better than you do. But let’s fd out.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here we go.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m Wley Morris, and I’m a culture wrer at The New York Tim, and this is “Still Procsg.” Today on the show, we’re gog to talk about the one, the only, Keanu Reev, and we’re gog to try and figure out why we get so much out of a movie star who appears to give so ltle.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Alex, I thk I have what is probably a pretty mon Keanu Reev experience, which is that I kd of took him for granted. He’s always been my life, and I jt never really felt like there was much to figure out. But who is this person, and what have I been misunrstandg if I’m thkg of him as an empty vsel?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Maybe he’s an empty vsel, and that’s a possibily that we have to enterta as part of , I thk. And I thk part of your feelg that you n’t look right at him, and that he don’t — ’s almost like your tert glanc off of him, I thk ’s a valid Keanu experience.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thk that a lot of that gets dramatized the work. He is always that guy who to the story and needs to be filled up. And what’s the most obv metaphoril versn of that?</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around .</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He has to get a plug put the back of his head, and he gets filled up wh kung fu jt right the back of the head.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I know kung fu.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Show me.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I feel like that’s part of the thg that you are watchg wh Keanu, is somebody who to a story wh nothg and has to get filled up wh ias. And I thk what I’m chasg after this book is those moments when the movie gets so th that you n basilly see right through , and you jt see Keanu — and the movie is revealed as an artifice that Keanu is dog somethg real wh .</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What is real? How do you fe real?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, I want to go back to 1991, which is about eight years before “The Matrix” out. It was the year of “Pot Break,” the year of “My Own Private Idaho” — two very, very different movi that e him not dissiar ways, right?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, bee there’s three movi ‘91. It’s the bt movie year an actor has ever had, bee there’s also “Bill and Ted’s Bog Journey.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (bill and ted)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How’s gog, Bill and Ted?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (ted)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We me to help you guys your most unfortunate suatn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (bill)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Each of them — “Bog Journey,” “Pot Break,” “My Own Private Idaho,” each one like a platonic love story between two guys.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (patrick swayze as bodhi)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You still haven’t figured out what ridg wav is all about, have you? It’s a state of md.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And for anybody who don’t know, “Pot Break” is, of urse, the “surfers rob a bank” movie starrg Keanu Reev as an F.B.I. agent —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (ben harp)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Special Agent Utah, are you receivg my signal?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as johnny utah)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Zero distortn, sir.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— and Patrick Swayze as the head of the bank robbg crew.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (bodhi)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You want the ultimate, you got to be willg to pay the ultimate price.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So what’s gog on wh Keanu this movie as far as you n see? Bee I have to tell you somethg, Alex. I still haven’t seen .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">For starters, “Pot Break” is one of those movi where Keanu enters to a suatn, and for the purpos of the plot, he has to be reprogrammed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the programmg is him learng how to be a ol guy orr to take down this gang of surfg bank robbers. And he is a blank slate who gets programmed for unrver purpos and then rejects the programmg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as johnny utah)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bodhi, this is your [EXPLETIVE] wake-up ll, man! I am an F.B.I. agent!</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (bodhi)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I know, man. A’t wild?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But ’s about somebody wh a ndnal inty who realiz that he has no actual inty of his own.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And that is somethg that you disver through the Zen state of surfg, through the Zen state of skydivg, through the Zen state of bank robbery. But ’s a movie like “The Matrix” and like many other inic Keanu Reev movi.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The bt on, this is the throughle.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, ’s one of the throughl, I thk, for sure. That he’s got — that somebody needs to put rmatn to his bra.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s what I love about the ‘91 movi, is that they do have this symmetry. He’s put this same suatn both “Pot Break” and “Private Idaho.” The world gets the way of whatever love Keanu and his -star have for one another.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And “My Own Private Idaho” there’s all of the suatns. They’re this Portland mimon world of the htlers, but ’s also a movie about Keanu cidg whether or not he’s gog to love River Phoenix the way that River Phoenix thks that he’s love wh Keanu.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (mike)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What do I mean to you?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as stt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What do you mean to me? Mike, you’re my bt iend.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, I will say, this is my first te Keanu Reev movie. So my first te Keanu Reev experience was Keanu Reev as an object, right? I’m not gog to say that G Van Sant tend for him to be objectified. But I thk as a young gay person 1991 who was tryg to figure out my own stuff, there’s somethg about River Phoenix’s evint longg for this other very betiful person who is very receptive to the affectn — I n remember watchg that film and jt beg like, I thk I love Keanu Reev too.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (mikey)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I uld love someone even if I wasn’t paid for . I love you, and you don’t pay me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as stt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mike.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (mikey)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I really want to kiss you, man.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as stt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">All right e here, Mike. Jt sleep.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, I am every person who has ever loved a probably straight guy, who is cur enough about the attentn to reciprote up to a pot.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s like a seri of fantasi about Keanu Reev that Keanu is participatg . He’s not sure how he feels about beg looked at.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as stt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I only have sex wh a guy for money.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (mikey)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I know.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as stt)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And two guys n’t love each other.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (mikey)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And when Keanu ph River Phoenix away, jt ma me feel — [GROANING] two guys n love each other! Anyway, I jt have a qutn for you, bee we’re talkg about Keanu the 1990s. And he’s dog different thgs, and he be the different people to the extent that he n bee a different person, right? The different environments for Keanu’s Keanu-ns to flourish is maybe the better way to put .</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so let’s jt go through the ‘90s movi. Let me get my ltle list here — Bram Stoker’s “Dracula.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as jonathan harker)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bloody wolv chasg me through some blue ferno.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s Don John “Much Ado About Nothg,” that Kenh Branagh movie wh Denzel and Emma Thompson.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as don john)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If I had my mouth, I would be.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m gog to skip some of the. He plays Buddha.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as siddhartha)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mt see the world, Yasodhara!</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In 1994, his biggt h up to that pot: “Speed.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as jack traven)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">50, stay above 50!</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“Johnny Mnemonic,” “A Walk the Clouds — ”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as pl sutton)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Can’t image how I want you.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“Cha Reactn,” “Feelg Mnota,” “Devil’s Advote — ”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as pl sutton)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This isn’t a populary ntt, ’s a murr trial.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And ‘99 “The Matrix.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">After this, there is no turng back.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So, he had one of the bt ‘90s of anybody who was a movie star the 1990s. Maybe Will Smh and Julia Roberts and Tom Cise did better than he did. But what is the thg that’s happeng to him durg this perd, and what is that he’s dog for durg the ‘90s, if you n even square those two thgs?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk ’s important that “My Own Private Idaho” out a week after “Nevermd” by Nirvana, a dark day for tradnal masculy bee all of those thgs are about to bee up for grabs thanks to ‘90s figur like Kurt Coba and Keanu Reev, who are gog to show a different way of beg a man. Kurt was a different kd of rock star.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And Keanu is a different kd of rock star too. And he has a lot of big hs. He has “Speed,” which nfirms him. “Pot Break” is like, oh, this guy uld be an actn star. And then “Speed” out, and ’s like, oh, this guy is an actn star.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then he ns the other directn. It is a very Gen X thg to do when nonted wh the opportuny to be super famo. And he do Hamlet Canada. And he’s clearly unsatisfied dog thgs like “Speed.” As he’s dog “Speed,” he’s walkg around on closed down eeway overpass recg all of the dialogue om Hamlet bee he spent three years learng to do Hamlet.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So by the end of the , this movie along that squar the circle, which is “The Matrix,” a giant h, but also satisfi whatever that philosophil art film thg is wh him, bee he’s ultimately a bookish guy om Toronto.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right, Keanu is such an externally oriented person, where all the forc seem to be g om outsi the hoe, so to speak.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[KNOCKING]</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Who is ?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A lot of means that he is, some ways, an object for the mera.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It is the world that has been pulled over your ey to bld you om the tth.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And pendg on who he’s workg wh, he n sometim seem stuck.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You ever have that feelg where you’re not sure if you’re awake or still dreamg?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And he seems like a man whout a style, so to speak.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (oracle)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Do you thk you are the one?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hontly, I don’t know.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I thk Keanu is operatg almost solely on the level of vib. And I thk that mak some people unfortable, bee I often have felt this — I’m not the first person to say , but Bt Actor, Bt Actrs is often most actg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Eher you know that they are dog somethg physilly difficult, or a transformatn that’s like, oh my god, Glenn Close don’t look like Glenn Close at all this. It’s amazg. Where did she go, whoever is? Keanu do not give you, where did he go?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, no, he’s always there. And he’s so prent. And ’s so easy to take his prentns for granted and jt assume that when he is beg prent that way, that he’s not dog anythg. But he’s fely dog somethg. You’ve nvced me. So we’re gog to take a break, and when we e back, Keanu plays Keanu.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So Alex, we’re the 2000s. Who is Keanu Reev at this pot?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So 2014, Keanu appears this movie, “John Wick,” where he’s a man who has lost his wife and has been given a puppy as her last gift to him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (helen wick)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">John, I’m sorry I n’t be there for you, but you still need somethg, someone, to love.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[DOG BARKING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then he gets to a beef wh some guys, and they do a terrible thg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sef tarasov)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, I love dogs.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They murr his puppy.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[DOG WHIMPERING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And that’s when turns out he is not a regular guy any way. He is John Wick. He has killed more people than you or I have had fast food meals our liv. And he proceeds to slay his way through, I thk ’s the Rsian mob unrworld this.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s lost his wife and his puppy, and he’s gog to beat up henchmen about until he feels better. And of urse, he’s not gog to feel better, which is why there is “John Wick 2” and “John Wick Chapter 3.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[GUNSHOT]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To me, ’s like when the dog di, a part of John Wick is ad too. And the part of him, the puppy that we associate — the cuddly ter creature that we associate Keanu Reev wh, if you’re so cled to thk of Keanu Reev as a cute object — the thg that’s thrillg about John Wick is he is leavg the puppy. Y’all killed him. He’s ad. And now I have to kill all you people for killg that part of me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I thk that that’s why “John Wick” works, bee there’s a sense of him, Keanu, as a tragic figure. But you know him as someone who has grown up whout his father the picture. He los River Phoenix shortly after “Private Idaho,” di of a dg overdose. He los a child, and then the woman he was gog to have the child wh is killed an accint.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And “John Wick” mak e of all the thgs that have been attached to his star text.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But also mak him meme-able some way too, right? We jt make the prumptns about who he is and how he’s feelg based on what ltle of him we see off-screen.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, the meme that really nnects and turns him to this ter inic figure is a picture of him stg on a park bench lookg sad. And they put him all the suatns, and ’s like, he’s stg next to Kanye, or he’s stg next to a dolph, or whatever is.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But everyone assum that that’s a picture of him thkg about his whole entire life and thkg about every bad thg that’s ever happened to him. So what happens is that everyone falls back love wh him as someone who has been stoilly endurg sadns and ntu to be pure of heart, spe all of this evince that the world is a bleak and terrible place.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I jt feel like of all the movie stars we have had, he’s the only one I n thk of who spir this kd of wish fulfillment. He is not willg to put himself the mache, and so as a rult, our own somewhat vlently benign way, thk that ’s our job to give him a star narrative. And I wonr if st him somethg. And to the gree that did, I wonr what the st is.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, but ’s tertg to thk about , if ’s st him somethg. Bee we create all the mem about him as a culture, and that allows him to live the Twter world, and the Instagram world, and those thgs whout him havg to do anythg. It’s perfect.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Anythg, y, y, y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He don’t have to do .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He was always tellg he was not gog to be the famo person that people wanted him to be. When you brg up Kurt Coba and Nirvana, this ia of sellg out is a real thg, right? And there’s all the opportuni for him to give a piece of his soul to the fame dtrial plex, but he’s not dog that. He basilly said he was never gog to do sentially. The work is sayg, I will not be dog this.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, bee of his year of birth, he’s technilly a Boomer, but he’s on the very far end of that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Real Gen X vib, baby.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Real Gen X vib.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Real Gen X vib.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sasha tran)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, there he is.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But at this pot, around the same time as he’s havg this “John Wick” rurgence, he shows up “Always Be My Maybe.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s the two people. Randall Park and Ali Wong are childhood iends who rne later life. And then they meet aga, and they try to navigate iendship turng to romance.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They need an Asian-Amerin love tert for Ali Wong, a rival for Randall Park. It is important to the filmmakers that that guy not be jt some hot whe guy, that not be Chris Pe or whatever, but who is also Asian-Amerin.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Keanu, part-Che, fs that bill, has never really been st that way, but this is the first time. And Ali Wong has talked about , that she always jt saw him that way. That was the way her fay was spoken about, that Keanu Reev is this very succsful Asian-Amerin actor. And so he go along wh , and he’s st as Keanu Reev.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sasha tran)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Now I know what feels like to be pletely starstck.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The only stars that matter are the on you look at when you dream.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But he’s playg a versn of Keanu Reev that is maybe Keanu Reev’s ia of what the egotistil actor versn of Keanu Reev would be like.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A pleasure to meet you, Marc.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (marc kim)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Likewise, Keanu. I love your outf.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh thanks, man. Tom Ford ma a ctom for me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sasha tran)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Wow.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (marc kim)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I didn’t know you wore glass.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t, my ey are perfect.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And there’s this amazg scene where he walks to the most pretent rtrant on Earth and is absolutely his element. They’re potg at everybody. It’s like he here every night, and they jt know, and they serve him all this like very bizarre nouvelle cuise.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">May I ask, do you have any dish that play wh time, the ncept of time?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (waer)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Ah, y, we have a meat —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">His entrance to that rtrant self be a meme. So now the meme Keanu cycle is feedg on self. It’s feedg to his movie rol, and he’s beg st that way. And he’s game for . He’s gog along wh , but that versn of himself do not, I don’t thk, nta a gra of tth. It’s jt an ia about Keanu.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is an example of him receivg the projectn though, right? He is performg the thg that he thks he’s been avoidg all this time that we have been tryg to put on him for two s.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, he’ll be your mirror, right? If you’re like — ’s like, oh, you thk of me as an Asian-Amerin actor? OK, I’m an Asian-Amerin actor then. It’s never occurred to me before, but you’re right. I’m honored to be here that st, that group of people. You thk of me as the ter’s boyiend? Oh, I will do that thg for you. I will be that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">He is always reflectg our own sir back to . It’s like there’s somethg about his unknowabily that mak that relatnship very personal, bee we are seeg ourselv every time we look at him. Our fandom for Keanu is participatory a way that lovg, say, Brad Pt, is not.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, I want to take you back to a “Matrix” moment.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bee I feel like many a Keanu movie has a Keanu metaphor . And the first thg you see the first scene of Neo/Thomas Anrson his life at all that apartment is a puter screen. And ’s blkg, and the first word that you see is the word “searchg” on a puter screen. And jt really stck me that we are lookg for somethg him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’ve been lookg for you, Neo.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">People that movie “The Matrix” are lookg for him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (agent smh)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">As you n see, we’ve had our eye on you for some time now, Mr. Anrson.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He is plucked om a kd of obscury and ma to believe that he is a msianic figure.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What are you tryg to tell me, that I n dodge bullets?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, Neo, I’m tryg to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And he rists .</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m not the one.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He don’t really believe this is te, but if you all want to believe , OK, I’ll do .</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (morphs)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’re gog . We’re takg Neo to see her.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (keanu reev as neo)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">See who?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (crewmate)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Oracle.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I n’t thk of another person any art form where so much of his value and his meang down to and our terpretatn of .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thk says a lot that the fourth “Matrix,” basilly, the moment when somebody shows up and is like, Neo, you’ve got to e wh . We need you to go back to the Matrix and be Neo aga. He’s like, OK. He’s jt like, OK, man. He’s lerally like, OK.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I love that moment so much, bee I thk that the way that he is that movie vers the way that he is the first “Matrix” movie says somethg about how he’s evolved the terim, bee he’s ma a peace wh the ia of Keanu. And so when sty lls, and they’re like, e back to the Matrix, we need you, he’s jt right there. He go along wh . What was your qutn?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There was no qutn. I jt ma a statement. And some ways, I’m jt listeng to you talk. And I’m remd of the thg that I thk I have found appealg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But if I were an actor, Alex, I thk Keanu Reev is how I would be ught actg. I wouldn’t be fortable wh the mera stuff. I wouldn’t be fortable havg to pretend to be a different person. I’d go along wh a lot of , but I wouldn’t really enjoy .</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the real tth of his prence on-screen is such an dictment of watchg, of lookg at people perform anythg. It is gettg at a fundamental awkwardns the spectator-spectated relatnship.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s lookg at as much as we’re lookg at him, I thk. There’s a self-nscns, but there is also an dience nscns. He knows that we’re there, and he wonrs if we’ve figured out that ’s jt Keanu Reev once aga playg a character, that we have not fotten that ’s him. Is that good actg?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If nothg else, Alex, is fely, fely great Keanu-g.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There might be no other parisons.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, that’s . There’s only one Keanu.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of one.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Alex Pappamas, I love you. Thanks for g on the show.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">alex pappamas</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I love you too, man, and any time you want to talk for 17 hours about Keanu, you know where to fd me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">wley morris</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I do. I actually do.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s our show. Alex Pappamas’s book, “Keanu Reev: Most Triumphant: The Movi and Meang of an Irreprsible In” is out. Now n to the bookstore.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">He’s also host of the excellent podst, “The Big H Show.” “Still Procsg” is produced by Elyssa Dudley and Hans Buetow. It’s eded by Sara Sarasohn and Sasha Weiss. The show is mixed by Marn Lozano and rerd by Maddy Masiello, digal productn by Mahima Chablani and D Ibekwe. Our theme mic is by Kdns. It’s lled “World Rtart” om the album, “Otherns.” And we will be back next week. Thanks for listeng.</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url()" class="css-18qqsen e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1kltdsh ehra6vc0"><a href=" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="Still Procsg logo" src="><span>Still Procsg</span></span></a><span class="css-1lhttlg ehra6vc1"><span class="css-sj5ozi ehra6vc2">Subscribe:</span><ul class="css-hx5n"><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Apple Podsts</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Google Podsts</a></li></ul></span></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-1gu519p edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1xbyom1 edye5kn2">Keanu Reev Will Be Your Mirror</h1><h2 class="css-rlih edye5kn3">No matter the role, the actor is reflectg your sir of what you want him to be.</h2></div><span class="css-lsnb14 edye5kn4"></span><button type="button" class="css-w62hzm" aria-haspopup="te" aria-label="Show Aud Transcript"><div class="css-1vd84sn"><svg xmlns=" width="24" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 20" fill="#F8F8F8"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M0 0H24V20H0V0ZM3 7H21V9H3V7ZM21 11H3V13H21V11ZM3 15H21V17H3V15ZM11 3H3V5H11V3Z" fill="#F8F8F8"></path></svg><span class="css-16bt4xd">Transcript</span></div></button></div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabx="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="whe" fill-opacy="0.9"></circle><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-tle" role="regn"><hear class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-tle">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to Still Procsg</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-ttid="transcript-playback-ntrols"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabx="99" type="button" class="css-1t9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns=" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-le="evenodd" clip-le="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--lor-ntent-sendary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--lor-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns=" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><tle>bars

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