Перевод контекст "that's so gay" c английский на русский от Reverso Context: Be reful of how even sual language - such as sayg "that's so gay"- n hurt others.
Contents:
- "THAT'S SO GAY" IS JT SO WRONG
- WHAT’S SO BAD ABOUT “THAT’S SO GAY”?
- WHAT DO YOU SAY TO “THAT’S SO GAY” AND OTHER ANTI-LGBTQ COMMENTS?
- THAT'S SO GAY
- STOP SAYG “THAT’S SO GAY!”: 6 TYP OF MICROAGGRSNS THAT HARM LGBTQ PEOPLE
- WHY “THAT’S SO GAY!” IS SO OFFENSIVE
- THE TE MEANG BEHD “THAT’S SO GAY”
- 'THAT'S SO GAY' PHRASE HAS LASTG IMPACT FOR LGBT YOUTH, STUDY FDS
- THAT'S GAY
- WHAT DO YOU SAY TO ‘THAT’S SO GAY’ & OTHER ANTI-LGBTQ+ COMMENTS?
- WATCH HILARY DUFF RE-CREATE HER INIC ‘THAT’S SO GAY’ ANTI-BULLYG PSA: ‘A CULTURE-DEFG MOMENT’
- THAT'S SO GAY!:
- IS IT OK TO SAY "THAT'S SO GAY"?
- JAGUARS ASSOCIATE STRENGTH ACH KEV MAXEN OUT AS GAY A FIRST FOR US-BASED PRO LEAGU
- THAT’S SO GAYPANSY DIVISNTRACK 5 ON THAT’S SO GAY PRODUCED BYPANSY DIVISNMAR. 31, 20091 VIEWER7.1K VIEWS7 CONTRIBUTORSTHAT’S SO GAY LYRICS(INTRO)I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, I'M NOT STUPID, YOU KNOWWHAT DO YOU TAKE ME FOR? HETERO?THE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , MAKE SURE I N'T HEAR'CSE YOU'RE PISSG ME OFF, IS THAT CLEAR?(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAY[SHORT INSTMENTAL]I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, JT A FIGURE OF SPEECH?IF YOU MEANT NOTHG BY , PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACHTHE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , YOU BETTER THK TWICESOME PISSED OFF FAGGOT MAY NOT TAKE TOO NICE(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAY(INSTMENTAL)I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, I'M NOT STUPID, YOU KNOWWHAT DO YOU TAKE ME FOR? ...BREER.THE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , MAKE SURE I N'T HEAR'CSE YOU'RE PISSG ME OFF, AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN QUEER!(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAYWHAT'D HE SAY? "THAT'S SO GAY"UM, GUS WHAT? THAT'S NOT OKAY!AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI N MAKE YOU FEEL WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAYEMBEDCANCELHOW TO FORMAT LYRICS:TYPE OUT ALL LYRICS, EVEN REPEATG SONG PARTS LIKE THE CHOSLYRICS SHOULD BE BROKEN DOWN TO DIVIDUAL LUSE SECTN HEARS ABOVE DIFFERENT SONG PARTS LIKE [VERSE], [CHOS], ETC.USE ALICS (<I>LYRIC</I>) AND BOLD (<B>LYRIC</B>) TO DISTGUISH BETWEEN DIFFERENT VOLISTS THE SAME SONG PARTIF YOU DON’T UNRSTAND A LYRIC, E [?]TO LEARN MORE, CHECK OUT OUR TRANSCRIPTN GUI OR VIS OUR TRANSCRIBERS FOMABOUTTHIS SONG B IS UNREVIEWEDGENI ANNOTATN1 NTRIBUTORA SONG BY A GAY BAND REBUTTG THE IA THAT “THAT’S SO GAY” IS AN ACCEPTABLE SULT AS BELTL THOSE WHO ARE GAY.EXPAND +5SHAREASK A QUTN ABOUT THIS SONGASK A QUTN *WHO PRODUCED “THAT'S SO GAY” BY PANSY DIVISN?WHEN DID PANSY DIVISN RELEASE “THAT'S SO GAY”?WHO WROTE “THAT'S SO GAY” BY PANSY DIVISN?THAT’S SO GAY (2009)PANSY DIVISN1. TWKIE TWKIE LTLE STAR2. AVERAGE MEN3. RI BABY4. SOME OF MY BT FRIENDS5. THAT’S SO GAY6. OBSSED WH ME7. 20 YEARS OF COCK8. WHAT’S IN IT FOR ME9. YOU’LL SEE THEM AGA10. DIRTY YOUNG MAN11. IT’S JT A JOB12. PAT ME ON THE ASS13. NEVER YOU MD14. LIFE LOVERSCREDSPRODUCED BYPANSY DIVISNWRTEN BYJON GOLIRELEASE DATEMARCH 31, 2009TAGSNON-MICEXPAND COMMENTSADD A MENTSIGN UP AND DROP KNOWLEDGE ?GENI IS THE ULTIMATE SOURCE OF MIC KNOWLEDGE, CREATED BY SCHOLARS LIKE YOU WHO SHARE FACTS AND SIGHT ABOUT THE SONGS AND ARTISTS THEY LOVE.SIGN UPGENI IS THE WORLD’S BIGGT LLECTN OF SONG LYRICS AND MIL KNOWLEDGE
- THE COMPLEXY OF ‘THAT'S SO GAY'
- Перевод "THAT'S SO GAY" на русский
- A GAY GIRL’S GUI TO THE 2023 WOMEN’S WORLD CUP
"THAT'S SO GAY" IS JT SO WRONG
Almost every teacher has heard stunts e the exprsn, “that’s so gay” as a way of puttg down or sultg someone (or to scribe somethg). The lsons will help stunts exame how appropriate language n hurt, and will help them thk of ways to end this kd of name-llg. * that s so gay *
Spend any time around teens, and you’re likely to hear the mon exprsn, “That’s so gay" — even among gay kids.
If you ask them about , as some rearchers have, they often will sist that is not tend as homophobic language, jt a harmls phrase to exprs tratn or somethg siar. When most people hear the term LGBT (lbian, gay, bisexual or transsexual), for stance, they equate to havg adult sex. Another client’s mother once ught him lookg at gay porn, and said, horrified, “You’re not gay, are you?
” Later when the parents learned their children were gay, they apologized to them for sayg the thgs, but the damage was already done.
WHAT’S SO BAD ABOUT “THAT’S SO GAY”?
By Kev L. Nadal, PhD (Associate Profsor of Psychology, John Jay College of Crimal Jtice - Cy Universy of New York) When I was a ltle kid, I ed to hear my brothers, s, and iends say thgs like “That’s so gay!” on a pretty regular basis. I would ually lgh along, hopg wh all my might… * that s so gay *
Hearg kids sayg, “that’s so gay” every day mak the people and everythg else around them qutnable: Are thgs safe or dangero? What, then, n be done about makg kids (and the rt of ) more aware of the harm g such phras as “That’s so gay? But parents who are enough aware of language’s substrata n help by helpg their kids’ schools unrstand the value of practicg the same kd of zero tolerance for homophobic language that they do for racist or anti-Semic or bullyg language.
The bt thg I have seen is the mpaign “ThkB4YouSpeak” by GLSEN (Gay, Lbian School Edutor Network). Anti-LGBT remarks such as “that’s so gay” are often untentnal and a mon part of teens’ vernacular.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO “THAT’S SO GAY” AND OTHER ANTI-LGBTQ COMMENTS?
The Lastg Impact Of 'That's So Gay' * that s so gay *
How n we prevent the e of language such as “that’s so gay, ” ed to tease and bully?
Also review Exposg Hidn Homophobia for exampl on how to al wh hidn homophobia among olr stunts.
THAT'S SO GAY
The phrase “that’s so gay” has tradnally been unrstood as homophobic. Stonewall’s School Report argued this posn, and will be discsed their upg Edutn Conference. Stonewall argu… * that s so gay *
(noun) Fear, dislike or hatred to homosexual (also bisexual or transgenr) people. How would you feel if someone said “that’s so gay” about somethg you were dog or about somethg you liked?
What would you do if you heard someone say “that’s so gay” or another unacceptable remark? (Note: Clarify any fns, and talk about why words like “that’s so gay, ” “gay, ” “fag, ” “sissy” or anythg else that me up are appropriate.
Your handbook should clu specific l about g appropriate language, such as the e of the phrase “that’s so gay. ” You n also be creative wh , rporatg stori, illtratns or even ics to munite why “that’s so gay” is appropriate and how , as well as other typ of name-llg, n hurt others. Informatn about fightg homophobia schools, as well as var lls to actn, n be found at GLSEN.
STOP SAYG “THAT’S SO GAY!”: 6 TYP OF MICROAGGRSNS THAT HARM LGBTQ PEOPLE
This book exam the nature and effects of microaggrsns, or subtle forms of discrimatn, toward lbian, gay, bisexual, and transgenr (LGBT) people. * that s so gay *
Safe Schools Coaln offers rourc for tors and parents on how bt to support LGBTQ youth and al wh issu of homophobia school muni. This year for Bullyg Preventn Month, download our most sought-after handout, “What Do You Say to ‘That’s So Gay’”?, which teach tors both how and why is important to rpond to anti-LGBTQ ments.
WHY “THAT’S SO GAY!” IS SO OFFENSIVE
Like other words meant to hurt someone, 's bt not to e the word gay a mean way. * that s so gay *
“You may not have meant to be hurtful, but when you e the word ‘gay’ to mean somethg is bad or stupid, is hurtful.
Knowg what to say when someone “gay” as a putdown is an sential skill -- not jt for tors, but for everyone as they cultivate rpectful spac hom, workplac and muni across the untry. Advertise your web se on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksThat's so gay1- Used by people as an adjective to scribe thgs that are retard, bad, unpleasent. Gregory-"Did you see that dumb PSA, 'Thats so gay' "Zach- "Yeah du, that's so gay"Gregory- "How gay is "Zach- "Gayer then AIDS"by omgJFD Augt 3, 2009FlagGet the That's so gay 's so gayA disrpectful way of showg dislike to somethg.
Advertise your Disrd server on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksThat's so gayThis is often ed by straight people who are gnorant to gays and don't really unrstand the meang of what they're sayg. "by Jassssooonnnn July 4, 2009FlagGet the That's so gay 's so gayWhen a person offends a gay person. Promote your Facebook post on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksThat’s so gayOften ed by middle school boys for thgs that fact, do not display any sign of homosexualyGuy1: did you see the news this morng?
THE TE MEANG BEHD “THAT’S SO GAY”
Jacksonville Jaguars associate strength ach Kev Maxen has e out as gay. His announcement is a first for a male ach a major U.S.-based profsnal league. * that s so gay *
Guy 1: 8 People DIED last night CHADby Deprsed lbo November 2, 2019FlagGet the That’s so gay Gaynot nerily meang homosexual, gay n mean stupid or potls, even meek, lame or, du that band who did the remake of that Todo song was so fuckg gayby Allen January 12, 2004FlagGet the So Gay mug. When I was a ltle kid, I ed to hear my brothers, s, and iends say thgs like “That’s so gay! I learned to walk by whout showg any reactn; I uld not let them know that bothered me, or else I would be provg to them that I was ed gay.
I didn’t tell anyone about the bullyg (not my parents, teachers, or anyone) bee admtg that I was beg teased for beg gay would mean that I was admtg to beg gay.
'THAT'S SO GAY' PHRASE HAS LASTG IMPACT FOR LGBT YOUTH, STUDY FDS
* that s so gay *
While I was no longer harassed about my closeted sexual orientatn, I didn’t have any iends that were openly gay and most of my iends didn’t have any eher. While many loved on later told me that they spected that I was gay, no one gave me any reason to believe that they were gay-iendly. In retrospect, I had a very difficult time acceptg my gay inty, bee of the microaggrsns that I experienced throughout my life.
One of the reasons why was important for me to study microaggrsns agast lbian, gay, bisexual, transgenr, queer and qutng (LGBTQ) people was bee I knew that this type of discrimatn existed and bee I hypothized that they had a signifint impact on the liv of LGBTQ people, particularly on their mental health and inty velopment.
For me, is anytime someone says “That’s so gay” and “No homo” my prence; for my transgenr iends, uld be anytime someone says “tranny”, “she-male”, or other rogatory terms.
THAT'S GAY
Maybe this is why 9 out of 10 LGBTQ high school stunts report experiencg harassment at school and why 2/3 of them say they feel unsafe (Gay, Lbian, and Straight Edutn Network, 2010). For stance, sometim, people tell me I’m not “a typil gay guy” bee of some stereotype I don’t fulfill; other tim, people assume that I would tomatilly get along wh another gay guy simply bee we are attracted to the same genr. In the media, an example clus one time when Paris Hilton said that gay men are “disgtg” and “probably have AIDS” or recently when The Bachelor said that gay people were “more ‘pervert’ a sense.
Anytime that any straight man assum that I would h on them, not only are they mistakenly flatterg themselv, they are munitg that they thk that all gay men n’t keep their hands to themselv. Correct others when they e homophobic/ transphobic language or endorse LGBTQ stereotyp. Kev Nadal is an Associate Profsor of Psychology at John Jay College of Crimal Jtice – Cy Universy of New York, the Vice Print of the Asian Amerin Psychologil Associatn, and the thor of “That’s So Gay!
The 2009 Natnal School Climate Survey: The Experienc of Lbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgenr Youth our Natn’s Schools. Sexual orientatn microaggrsns: “Death by a thoand cuts” for lbian, gay, and bisexual youth. (2010) Sexual orientatn and transgenr microaggrsns everyday life: Experienc of lbians, gays, bisexuals, and transgenr dividuals.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO ‘THAT’S SO GAY’ & OTHER ANTI-LGBTQ+ COMMENTS?
Sexual orientatn microaggrsns: Procs and pg mechanisms for lbian, gay, and bisexual dividuals.
Answers to Your Qutns for a Better Unrstandg of Sexual Orientatn and Homosexualy.
So, like, if ’s wh my iends and someone says “that’s so gay”; I know ’s a very different meang than a kid who jt tripped and another one said “that’s so gay”, you know what I mean?
WATCH HILARY DUFF RE-CREATE HER INIC ‘THAT’S SO GAY’ ANTI-BULLYG PSA: ‘A CULTURE-DEFG MOMENT’
Vidisha Sharma: I agree wh what Sofia said about nnotatn; if ’s someone gay, like myself, and I make jok like “oh my god that’s so gay” or “hahaha I’m so gay”.
THAT'S SO GAY!:
: Also, ’s jt bee people thk ’s quirky to say , like, “cê é tão gay, s viado” and that kd of stuff; ’s bee ’s popular and a lot of people are sayg . From the terviews, is evint that the people on the other end of “that’s so gay” are hurt and repulsed by the mon e of the phrase. Some young adults might feel that is okay to e this phrase as a joke or an sult bee don’t affect them, and and feel that“long gone are the tim when gay people were opprsed”, but they are wrong.
In the news, ’s mon nowadays to see a child murred ld blood bee they told their parents they were gay, an example beg Anthony Avalos. This 10-year-old boy had e out as gay days before his murr and was found wh severe signs of physil harm cludg malnutrn, cigarette burns, and bis.
IS IT OK TO SAY "THAT'S SO GAY"?
The police spected this might have been a hate crime for homophobia (Therolf, 1). "That's so gay" has been part of the adolcent lexin for some time, but a new Universy of Michigan study has revealed the phrase uld have ep nsequenc for lbian, gay, bisexual and transgenr (LGBT) stunts. Published the current issue of the Journal of Amerin College Health, the study reportedly examed the impact of hearg "that's so gay" among 114 LGBT stunts between the ag of 18 and 25, CBS Detro is reportg.
JAGUARS ASSOCIATE STRENGTH ACH KEV MAXEN OUT AS GAY A FIRST FOR US-BASED PRO LEAGU
Still, the study also revealed another troublg statistic: a mere 14 rponnts (13 percent) hadn't heard "that's so gay" at all throughout the duratn of the survey. "Given the nature of gay-lbian-bisexual stigma, sexual mory stunts uld already perceive themselv to be exclud on mp and hearg 'that's so gay' may elevate such perceptns, " Michael Woodford, an assistant profsor of social work and -thor of the new study, said a statement.
THAT’S SO GAYPANSY DIVISNTRACK 5 ON THAT’S SO GAY PRODUCED BYPANSY DIVISNMAR. 31, 20091 VIEWER7.1K VIEWS7 CONTRIBUTORSTHAT’S SO GAY LYRICS(INTRO)I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, I'M NOT STUPID, YOU KNOWWHAT DO YOU TAKE ME FOR? HETERO?THE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , MAKE SURE I N'T HEAR'CSE YOU'RE PISSG ME OFF, IS THAT CLEAR?(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAY[SHORT INSTMENTAL]I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, JT A FIGURE OF SPEECH?IF YOU MEANT NOTHG BY , PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACHTHE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , YOU BETTER THK TWICESOME PISSED OFF FAGGOT MAY NOT TAKE TOO NICE(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAY(INSTMENTAL)I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID, I'M NOT STUPID, YOU KNOWWHAT DO YOU TAKE ME FOR? ...BREER.THE NEXT TIME YOU SAY , MAKE SURE I N'T HEAR'CSE YOU'RE PISSG ME OFF, AND YOU'RE NOT EVEN QUEER!(CHOS)WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"WHAT'D HE SAY? HE SAID "THAT'S SO GAY"AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI'LL SHOW YOU WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAYWHAT'D HE SAY? "THAT'S SO GAY"UM, GUS WHAT? THAT'S NOT OKAY!AND IF YOU SAY AGA, THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAYI N MAKE YOU FEEL WHAT 'S LIKE TO BE GAYEMBEDCANCELHOW TO FORMAT LYRICS:TYPE OUT ALL LYRICS, EVEN REPEATG SONG PARTS LIKE THE CHOSLYRICS SHOULD BE BROKEN DOWN TO DIVIDUAL LUSE SECTN HEARS ABOVE DIFFERENT SONG PARTS LIKE [VERSE], [CHOS], ETC.USE ALICS (<I>LYRIC</I>) AND BOLD (<B>LYRIC</B>) TO DISTGUISH BETWEEN DIFFERENT VOLISTS THE SAME SONG PARTIF YOU DON’T UNRSTAND A LYRIC, E [?]TO LEARN MORE, CHECK OUT OUR TRANSCRIPTN GUI OR VIS OUR TRANSCRIBERS FOMABOUTTHIS SONG B IS UNREVIEWEDGENI ANNOTATN1 NTRIBUTORA SONG BY A GAY BAND REBUTTG THE IA THAT “THAT’S SO GAY” IS AN ACCEPTABLE SULT AS BELTL THOSE WHO ARE GAY.EXPAND +5SHAREASK A QUTN ABOUT THIS SONGASK A QUTN *WHO PRODUCED “THAT'S SO GAY” BY PANSY DIVISN?WHEN DID PANSY DIVISN RELEASE “THAT'S SO GAY”?WHO WROTE “THAT'S SO GAY” BY PANSY DIVISN?THAT’S SO GAY (2009)PANSY DIVISN1. TWKIE TWKIE LTLE STAR2. AVERAGE MEN3. RI BABY4. SOME OF MY BT FRIENDS5. THAT’S SO GAY6. OBSSED WH ME7. 20 YEARS OF COCK8. WHAT’S IN IT FOR ME9. YOU’LL SEE THEM AGA10. DIRTY YOUNG MAN11. IT’S JT A JOB12. PAT ME ON THE ASS13. NEVER YOU MD14. LIFE LOVERSCREDSPRODUCED BYPANSY DIVISNWRTEN BYJON GOLIRELEASE DATEMARCH 31, 2009TAGSNON-MICEXPAND COMMENTSADD A MENTSIGN UP AND DROP KNOWLEDGE ?GENI IS THE ULTIMATE SOURCE OF MIC KNOWLEDGE, CREATED BY SCHOLARS LIKE YOU WHO SHARE FACTS AND SIGHT ABOUT THE SONGS AND ARTISTS THEY LOVE.SIGN UPGENI IS THE WORLD’S BIGGT LLECTN OF SONG LYRICS AND MIL KNOWLEDGE
" Woodford went on to suggt, "Polici and tnal programs are need to help stunts, staff and faculty to unrstand that such language n be harmful to gay stunts.
Sam: Du, that's hatersgonhatee November 1, 2010FlagGet the That's Gay your web se on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksGayHappyGay means happy or joyfullby antsondga November 1, 2017FlagGet the Gay means happy if you are smart to read a dictnaryWhy are you so gay today? By March 5, 2021FlagGet the Gay your Twter post on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksGayHapps“Are you gay? “No, I have a wife”by The_BarkBark Augt 31, 2022FlagGet the Gay is happy and happy is good!!!!!.!
Promote your Disrd server on Urban Dictnary jt 3 clicksGayHappsSon: “what do gay mean”.
THE COMPLEXY OF ‘THAT'S SO GAY'
Dad: “no, I have a wifeby V1NSAN1TY 123 October 15, 2019FlagGet the Gay means happyIf gay means happy then I am very much Gamergod696969 December 29, 2022FlagGet the Gay mug. It don’t matter if ’s a first grar who might not know what the word “gay” means, a sixth grar tryg to sound ol, or a tenth grar “teasg” a iend. “Even if you didn’t mean to offend people who are gay, is offensive to ll this assignment gay (or queer); if you don’t like somethg, then say you don’t like !
If you have been hearg the phrase “That’s gay” or “no homo, ” take time durg class to make sure that your stunts know what “gay” means and know why is hurtful to e as a ment or put-down.
Перевод "THAT'S SO GAY" на русский
Be clear that g the phrase “That’s gay” is hurtful to other stunts who may have fay members or iends who are LGBTQ. For the youngt stunts, keep simple – for example, “the word gay scrib a man and a man or a woman and a woman who love each other.
A GAY GIRL’S GUI TO THE 2023 WOMEN’S WORLD CUP
*LGBTQ+: Lbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgenr, Queer, Pl (muny members who e different language to scribe inty). Stonewall argu that the phrase has a harmful effect on young lbian, gay and bisexual people’s tn and well-beg. Yet the ial fdgs om my terviews wh 40 gay youth om four universi suggts a more plex picture, wh no clear agreement on what the phrase means or s effects.
He said: “I thk breaks down barriers between the straight and gay muny… I e a lot. ” Siarly, Neil, gay and aged 18, said: “I don’t fd rogatory any way, probably bee I say as well. How are we to unrstand a phrase that olr people fd homophobic, but many younger people do not fd offensive and even e themselv?