Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Talk Queer Songwrg, Amerina Mic, and More</tle><meta name="tle" ntent="Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Talk Queer Songwrg, Amerina Mic, and More" /><meta name="scriptn" ntent="Esquire asked micians Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt to jo a nversatn about their reers as two of few queer micians the Amerina space." /><meta name="keywords" ntent /><meta property="og:type" ntent="webse" /><meta name="theme-lor" ntent="#000000" /><lk href="/_assets/sign-tokens/quire/static/imag/" rel="in" /><meta property="og:se_name" ntent="Esquire" /><meta name="fb:app_id" ntent="171874009543995" property="fb:app_id" /><meta name="article:publisher" ntent=" property="article:publisher" /><meta name="fb:pag" ntent="84169421673" property="fb:pag" /><meta name="twter:se" ntent="@Esquire" /><meta name="google-se-verifitn" ntent="1vf5i9wM7chlCFc_0XI_e-oCfDf4sEvp32sTGKokQ" /><meta property="og:tle" ntent="Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Know That It Tak Bravery to Sg the Tth" /><meta property="og:scriptn" ntent="The two micians discs their paths as two queer Amerina artists and whether really is all rock and roll." /><meta name="robots" ntent="max-image-preview:large,max-snippet:-1,max-vio-preview:30" /><lk rel="apple-touch-in" href="/_assets/sign-tokens/quire/static/imag/" /><meta property="og:image" ntent="" /><meta property="og:image:width" ntent="1200" /><meta property="og:image:height" ntent="600" /><meta name="thumbnail" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent=" /><meta name="twter:image" ntent="" /><meta ntent=" property="og:url" /><meta name="to-publish" ntent="timely" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="article" /><meta name="twter:rd" ntent="summary_large_image" /><meta name="article:opn" property="article:opn" /><meta ntent="Mic" property="article:sectn" /><meta ntent="2021-11-01T23:56:25Z" property="article:modified_time" /><meta ntent="2021-06-17T12:25:00Z" property="article:published_time" /><meta name="sailth.excerpt" ntent="Katie Pt, a 27-year-old Amerina artist who recently released a fiant album about beg a lbian raised Catholic Atlanta, is about to enter to her Saturn returns era, which means her life is gog to get weird. 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data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Entertament" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10e6ywj e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">Entertament</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="1" /></li><li emProp="emListElement" emSpe emType=" class="css-zxq36b e9l0kn01"><a emProp="em" href="/entertament/mic/" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Breadcmbs" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Mic" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10e6ywj e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">Mic</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="2" /></li><style data-emotn="css huh8md">{display:none;}{paddg:0.25rem;ntent:">";}</style><li emProp="emListElement" emSpe emType=" class="css-huh8md e9l0kn01"><a emProp="em" href="/entertament/mic/a36740258/brandi-rlile-katie-pt-amerina-queer-micians-terview/" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Breadcmbs" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Know That It Tak Bravery to Sg the Tth" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="e9l0kn00 css-10e6ywj e1c1bym14"><span emProp="name">Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Know That It Tak Bravery to Sg the Tth</span></a><meta emProp="posn" ntent="3" /></li></ol></nav><style data-emotn="css g4r5va">{font-fay:Glanz,Glanz-fallback,Tim,Serif;font-weight:normal;grid-lumn:1/-1;marg-bottom:0.9375rem;marg-top:0.9375rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:2rem;le-height:1.25;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:2.625rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:3.125rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem){{font-size:3.37499rem;le-height:1.1;}}</style><h1 class="css-g4r5va exadjwu10"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span>Brandi Carlile and Katie Pt Know That It Tak Bravery to Sg the Tth<span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h1><style data-emotn="css 2qf7xf">{lor:#515150;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;marg-bottom:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.0625rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.3125rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.3125rem;le-height:1.3;}} a{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:#FF3A30;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:#000000;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;} a:hover{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><div class="css-2qf7xf exadjwu8"><p>The two micians discs their paths as two queer Amerina artists and whether really is all rock and roll.</p></div><style data-emotn="css d04ng2">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;marg-bottom:0.625rem;paddg-right:0.3125rem;text-transform:upperse;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}} span{font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0rem;text-transform:palize;}@media(max-width: 48rem){ span{font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){ span{font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 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Rense" width="40" height="40" dg="async" fetchPrry="high" class=" css-1sa04t ehvvd9m0" />By <style data-emotn="css 7l5upj">{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href="/thor/14093/sarah-rense/" class="css-7l5upj e1c1bym14">Sarah Rense</a></span><style data-emotn="css 1bcsdhu">{display:le-block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;marg-left:0.625rem;text-transform:upperse;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><time class="css-1bcsdhu exadjwu6">Published: Jun 17, 2021</time></addrs></div><style data-emotn="css 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e5f9kgu1"><style data-emotn="css 335qep">{posn:relative;width:100%;height:100%;object-f:ver;vertil-align:top;}</style><img fetchPrry="high" alt="brandi rlile and katie pt" tle="brandi rlile and katie pt" width="2000" height="1000" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="css-335qep exi4f7p0" /></div><style data-emotn="css 285vyd">{le-height:1;}@media(max-width: 73.75rem){{paddg-left:0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg-left:0;}}</style><figptn class="css-285vyd enfs9c50"><style data-emotn="css 1mcfn5x">{lor:#595959;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;paddg-right:0.3125rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd2">Alysse Gafkjen; Michael Wetrob</span></figptn></div></div><style 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strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;}</style><p data-no-id="1" class="body-dropp css-1nhwtgm et3p2gv0">Katie Pt, a 27-year-old Amerina artist who recently released a fiant album about beg a lbian raised Catholic Atlanta, is about to enter to her Saturn returns era, which means her life is gog to get weird. Or so <style data-emotn="css umdwtv">{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:#FF3A30;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:her;-webk-transn:background 0.4s;transn:background 0.4s;background:lear-gradient(#ffffff, #ffffff 50%, #d5dbe3 50%, #d5dbe3);-webk-background-size:100% 200%;background-size:100% 200%;}{lor:#000000;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;-webk-background-posn:100% 100%;background-posn:100% 100%;}</style><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Brandi Carlile" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">Brandi Carlile</a>, the six-time Grammy wner whose name has bee synonymo wh Amerina over the last , and who jt released a <a href=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="remarkably hont memoir" data-vars-ga-product-id="3f5f7fee-406f-46e3-bd99-f0d252922ece" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"6d6f68a9-010c-4169-97b0-14dd8a217bdb","se_id":"8b6b0f67-bc-4d9d-86c6-dff1abae12","metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","metadata":{}}}" data-vars-ga-media-role data-vars-ga-media-type data-vars-ga-product-brand="Crown" data-vars-ga-product-price="$22.49" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="cce1757d-5c50-47e3-9a36-288863361659" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="Crown" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Mic" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="sale | (not set)" class="body-lk product-lks css-umdwtv ebsw2pb0">remarkably hont memoir</a> that lv to her life as a queer mician, tells her. "You're gog to eak out, probably," Carlile says. "Right when you turn 30." But, Carlile assur her, "I feel like the bt rerds happened on the big, precipice moments life."</p><style data-emotn="css 18vfmjb">{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.6;} em{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-style:alic;} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;}</style><p data-no-id="2" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">Carlile was right around Pt's age now when she released her own Saturn returns rerd, <em>The Story</em> 2007<em>, </em>which lnched her to her "phoric" thirti and what she hop will be her even better forti. "Maybe 's jt for queer people, but the tim get better as we get olr," Carlile tells Pt over a Zoom ll late May. And spe g off that monster of a but album, <em>Expectatns</em>, which nabbed her a nomatn for Emergg Act of the Year om the Amerina Mic Associatn, Pt don't pass up the enuragement. "Fuck, yeah. Thank you, Brandi. I need that nfince boost today."</p><div supprsHydratnWarng data-no-id="3" data-embed="edorial-lk" class="embed css-0 e9hzx6g0"><style data-emotn="css 1643r8a">{borr:none;marg-top:1.875rem;marg-bottom:1.875rem;paddg:0rem;}</style><asi class="css-1643r8a e6pr2lz5"><style data-emotn="css l3w2xc">{display:le-block;font-weight:normal;marg:0rem;borr-top:0.25rem solid #15263D;paddg-right:1.1rem;paddg-top:0.4375rem;text-transform:lowerse;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1.3;}</style><h6 class="css-l3w2xc e6pr2lz3"><style data-emotn="css 156fvc1">{borr-bottom:0.4375rem solid #FF3A30;borr-right:0.4375rem solid transparent;ntent:'';display:le-block;height:0;marg-right:0.5rem;width:0;}</style><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-156fvc1 eagam8p0"></span><style data-emotn="css 8lle59">{max-width:lc(100% - 120px - .625rem);}</style><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Related Stori</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><style data-emotn="css c4s2gi">{paddg:0rem;marg:0rem;list-style:none;}</style><ul class="css-c4s2gi e6pr2lz4"><style data-emotn="css 79zw4t">{font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:1rem;le-height:2rem;paddg-top:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.9375rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{le-height:1.4;}} a{-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;} a:hover{lor:#595959;}</style><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><style data-emotn="css 1bn7a5e">{-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-box-flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-directn:row;-ms-flex-directn:row;flex-directn:row;-webk-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webk-jtify-ntent:flex-start;jtify-ntent:flex-start;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;}</style><a href="/entertament/mic/a28905671/the-highwomen-brandi-rlile-maren-morris-amanda-shir-natalie-hemby-terview/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="The Highwomen Are Changg Country Mic" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><style data-emotn="css 1l0u1">{marg-right:0.625rem;height:to;}</style><img src="" alt="The Highwomen" tle="The Highwomen" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">The Highwomen Are Changg Country Mic</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/entertament/mic/a36699247/lucy-dac-home-vio-terview/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Can Lucy Dac Ever Go Home Aga?" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="lucy dac" tle="Can Lucy Dac Ever Go Home Aga?" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Can Lucy Dac Ever Go Home Aga?</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/entertament/mic/a36683968/rotsam-batmanglij-changephobia-terview/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Rostam Batmanglij Is Embracg Change" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="rotsam bbatmanglij" tle="Rostam Batmanglij Is Embracg Change" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Rostam Batmanglij Is Embracg Change</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li></ul></asi></div><p data-no-id="4" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">Pt and Carlile first met at a <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="benef ncert for victims of the Nashville tornado" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">benef ncert for victims of the Nashville tornado</a>, right before the panmic set — that surreal span of time when people weren't sure they should be huggg each other, but pre-lockdown, they both rell. It was the last time they saw <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="John Pre" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">John Pre</a>, and was the last time for a very long while that eher would play live on stage. A year and change later, wh the promise of live mic imment, <em>Esquire</em> asked them both to jo a nversatn over Zoom (Carlile om her home Seattle, Pt om her place Nashville) about their reers as two queer Amerina micians, as well as the tensn between untry and Amerina mic, givg a platform to people of lor and LGBTQ people their dtry, and sgg wh so much emotn jt about breaks your heart to listen. Here's that nversatn, slightly eded and nnsed; they had que a lot to say.</p><style data-emotn="css 18pb4rg">{borr:0;borr-bottom:th solid black;marg:1.875rem 0;clear:both;}</style><hr data-no-id="5" class="css-18pb4rg et3p2gv0" /><p data-no-id="6" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>Katie Pt: </strong>My mom bought me your book, Brandi. So cute. She's a huge fan of you.</p><p data-no-id="7" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>Brandi Carlile:</strong> I'm glad <em>somebody</em>'s mom lik .</p><p data-no-id="8" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>Esquire:</strong> In your book, Brandi, you talk about the Amerina elrs that you revere, like Bonnie Rat and Dolly Parton and Tanya Tucker. Now you're spirg a new generatn of Amerina wrers. What do that feel like?</p><p data-no-id="9" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> All I n say is, I get . I really get . I'm not one of those folks that's gog to be like, "Oh, I don't spire a generatn of anythg." But I do get , bee I had . I'm grateful for the people that spired me and really jt wantg to at least have a look at fillg those sho, even if 's not entirely possible.</p><p data-no-id="10" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ:</strong> Katie, who's spirg you to wre?</p><p data-no-id="11" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> Brandi is fely one of them. I've wanted to ask you this for a while, Brandi. When I was g up, there weren't really those societal stggl of me beg an out LGBT songwrer, but there were obvly stggl my personal life, which I gus still ma difficult. You as a 27-year-old, what obstacl did you face, beg a queer woman Amerina mic? 'Cse whout you, I don't thk I uld have been as jt, I don't know, not-subtle on <em>Expectatns</em>.</p><p data-no-id="12" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> I love how not-subtle you are.</p><p data-no-id="13" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I jt lay all out there, but that fely would not have been possible whout you. So I wonr what was like when you were my age.</p><style data-emotn="css 8c6v">{posn:absolute;left:-10000px;top:to;width:1px;height:1px;overflow:hidn;}</style><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. 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to a place where maybe hasn't gotten to yet, and you're taken by surprise that the archaic systems and opprsns are still place. Maybe they're a ltle more subtle, but 's like, I'll take a wolf wolf's clothg over a wolf sheep's clothg any day.</p><p data-no-id="16" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">So I still really rpect immensely what you're dog and how ank and out-there you are about . It's still brave, 's still revolutnary, and 's still helpg me, even though we're not the same age and we're not the same place physilly or reer-wise jt yet. I feel you're still pavg the way backwards, bee I don't thk progrs only mov one directn. You have to be nstantly on guard. Like for stance, when I was growg up untry mic, I had all of the ins, all of the amazg female artists that were gettg platformed and played on every rad statn—absolutely zero women of lor, but plenty of women at least. And then cut to 2016 and there's like two or three. That's like, <em>oh my God, progrs went backwards.</em> But n do that, LGBTQ rights too. That's why you have to jt keep pavg. I had obstacl, but a lot of tim I only see obstacl retrospect, bee I'm so sane, and driven. What are some obstacl that you have felt g up? </p><style data-emotn="css 1iigb5k">{clear:none;posn:relative;text-align:center;word-break:break-word;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{max-width:100%;}{max-width:100%;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{text-align:left;}}@media(m-width: 48rem) and (max-width: 61.25rem){{max-width:m(20.625rem, lc((100vw - (1rem * 3))/2));float:left;marg-left:0rem;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:m(20.625rem, lc((100vw - (1rem * 3))/2));float:right;marg-right:0rem;marg-left:1rem;}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem) and (max-width: 90rem){{max-width:20.625rem;float:left;clear:left;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:20.625rem;float:right;clear:right;marg-left:1rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{max-width:20.625rem;float:left;clear:left;marg-right:1rem;}{max-width:20.625rem;float:right;clear:right;marg-left:1rem;}}</style><div data-ad-exclu="(m-width: 90rem)" data-embed="embed-product" data-no-id="17" size="medium" class="size-medium align-right embed css-1iigb5k etrqhn80"><style data-emotn="css 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#FF3A30;borr-radi:2rem;lor:#000000;display:le-block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacg:0.04rem;le-height:1.3;marg-bottom:0.625rem;marg-top:0.625rem;paddg:0.625rem 1.25rem;-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-transform:upperse;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;whe-space:pre-le;width:to;background:#FF3A30;background-lor:#FF3A30;borr:th solid #FF3A30;borr-radi:2rem;lor:#000000;display:le-block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;letter-spacg:0.04rem;le-height:1.3;marg-bottom:0.625rem;marg-top:0.625rem;paddg:0.625rem 1.25rem;-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-transform:upperse;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;whe-space:pre-le;width:to;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.5rem 0.7rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}{outle-lor:body-cta-btn-lk-foc;}{background-lor:#ffffff;lor:#000;borr:th solid #FF3A30;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.5rem 0.7rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg:0.6rem 1.125rem 0.3125rem;}}{outle-lor:body-cta-btn-lk-foc;}{background-lor:#ffffff;lor:#000;borr:th solid #FF3A30;}</style><a target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener" href=" aria-label="$22 at Amazon for "Broken Hors: A Memoir"" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"6d6f68a9-010c-4169-97b0-14dd8a217bdb","se_id":"8b6b0f67-bc-4d9d-86c6-dff1abae12","is_active":te,"metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","is_active":te,"bs_un_id":"ad046b46-538b-42cb-aa54-c3d158875ed6","tails":"","metadata":{},"created_at":"2021-07-28T16:03:03.241365+00:00","last_updated_at":"2021-07-28T16:03:03.241381+00:00"}}" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="$22 at Amazon" data-vars-ga-media-type="Sgle Product Embed" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-product-brand="Crown" data-vars-ga-product-id="d61f3301-bd09-4244-9574-c745f4cbaf" data-vars-ga-product-price="$22.49" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="cce1757d-5c50-47e3-9a36-288863361659" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="Crown" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-tegory="Mic" data-vars-ga-gallery-id data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="sale | On Sale" data-vars-ga-sku="0593237242" data-vars-ga-magento-trackg="1" role="button" data-ab-label="ProdClick" class="product-btn-lk en6kra60 css-1i4dhmq e1c1bym14">$22 at Amazon</a></div></div></div></div><p data-no-id="18" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> Openg tours as an outwardly gay songwrer for a bunch of men. Like pretty much 2019 and 2018, I was only put on bills wh men. So was like, <em>okay, here's your diverse, different opener.</em> And sometim crowds would be a ltle...</p><p data-no-id="19" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> It's always the openg gigs. You're like, "Ooh, I sense some uniendls and I don't know what to do."</p><p data-no-id="20" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> It was eher like, "Oh my gosh, I love what you're talkg about, I thk 's really brave." Or was like olr people: "I don't know what to say to this lbian songwrer right now talkg about her experience, I'm unfortable." Really that's the only obstacle, and 's not even an obstacle.</p><p data-no-id="21" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> No, they might not know how to react realtime when you do that, but then they go home and they thk about . And then what you've done is unwtgly ma easier for their niece to e out to them. You know?</p><p data-no-id="22" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I actually didn't thk about that way.</p><p data-no-id="23" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>It's like you take the disfort upont and then they go home, and their niece to them a month later and says, "Hey, uncle so-and-so who jt me back om MerleFt, I'm gay." And he go, "So you know that Katie Pt girl?" It's important ways you'll never get thanked for and that nobody will ever see. But, I see . I jt want to pot out to you that 's great, what you're dog.</p><p data-no-id="24" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>That's awome to hear om you, for real. Other than that, there weren't any dtry obstacl, and I tly thk that is bee there was a Brandi Carlile and there were Indigo Girls. There were queer artists that have had succs, and I hope the same happens for people of lor and Amerina. That the labels, the dtry folks, start seeg, "Oh, this appeals, this mak money." Which is dumb, but that's the way they thk. People like you and people like Allison Rsell and Amythyst Kiah and Brtany Howard, I mean, labels are like, "Oh my gosh, y."</p><p data-no-id="25" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> It's movg the needle for sure.</p><p data-no-id="26" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> Totally, for another Black artist or queer artist to e up behd them.</p><p data-no-id="27" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> Or God forbid, both.</p><p data-no-id="28" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> [lghs] God forbid both, yeah.</p><style data-emotn="css 1736von">{--data-embed-display:flex;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;clear:both;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;marg-bottom:0.9375rem;marg-left:to;marg-right:to;width:100%;}@media(m-width: 20rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 30rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 75rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{width:100%;marg:0 to 0.9375rem;}} a span{right:1rem;} img{width:to;height:85vh;} a{display:-webk-le-box;display:-webk-le-flex;display:-ms-le-flexbox;display:le-flex;posn:var(--posn, relative);} img:not(.ewcw41w1){display:block;width:100%;height:to;-webk-align-self:flex-start;-ms-flex-em-align:flex-start;align-self:flex-start;}</style><div size="medium" data-embed="body-image" data-no-id="29" class="align-center size-medium embed css-1736von e1xqj1sx4"><style data-emotn="css uwraif">{width:100%;display:-webk-le-box;display:-webk-le-flex;display:-ms-le-flexbox;display:le-flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;marg-left:to;marg-right:to;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;}</style><div class="css-uwraif e1xqj1sx3"><img alt="to nashville, wh love a ncert benefg lol tornado relief efforts" tle="To Nashville, Wh Love A Concert Benefg Lol Tornado Relief Efforts" loadg="lazy" width="1024" height="741" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="css-0 exi4f7p0" /><style data-emotn="css swqnqv">@media(m-width: 20rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 30rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 75rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{paddg-left:0rem;}}</style><div class="css-swqnqv e1xqj1sx2"><style data-emotn="css 8h7i7x">{width:0;m-width:100%;paddg-top:0.625rem;letter-spacg:0.02rem;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1.3;} em, i{font-fay:her;font-style:alic;}</style><div class="css-8h7i7x e1xqj1sx1">Katie Pt belts at the To Nashville, Wh Love ncert benefg lol tornado relief efforts at Marathon Mic Works on March 9, 2020.</div><style data-emotn="css 1am3yn9">{paddg-left:0rem;le-height:1;}</style><figptn class="css-1am3yn9 enfs9c50"><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd2">Jason Kemp</span><style data-emotn="css 1vpjmnm">{lor:#595959;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;paddg:0 0.3rem;paddg-right:0.3125rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:0.75rem;le-height:1.3;}}</style><span class="css-1vpjmnm e6iqd0">//</span><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd1">Getty Imag</span></figptn></div></div></div><p data-no-id="30" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC:</strong> The thg I like about queers is I fd that our first stct isn't to be petive wh each other. It's jt each other gettg the door and thkg, "This is good for me, this is good for my fay, this is good work. How n I get that door open a ltle further for her or him or they or them?" I e up om this environment of this kd of slumber party mentaly—and I remember that bee I remember slumber parti beg que trmatic for me—and how like, I have a job right now where people that thk like me and people that have a life like me, that look like me one way or another, are supportg each other. I'm not tryg to be Pollyanna about that sh, but 's pretty ol.</p><p data-no-id="31" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>No, 's super ol. There's this llective stggle that we've all shared of feelg unclud, whether that be childhood or anywhere along the way, if you were queer and pecially if you're Black. So I thk 's, "I'm here for you.” It's jt this tomatic bond.<br /></p><p data-no-id="32" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>Do you have a genre of mic that you intify wh—you'd ll yourself I'm <em>this</em> artist or <em>that</em> artist?</p><p data-no-id="33" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I'm tryg not to do that. It's like, some days I'm on a <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Jason Isbell" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">Jason Isbell</a> kick and then other days I'm on a <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Jeff Tweedy" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">Jeff Tweedy</a> kick and then other days I'm on a <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Radhead" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">Radhead</a> kick. I listen to so much different mic that I don't want to box myself milly. I feel like the sky's the lim on how you want to sound and explore sonilly. I try not to be like, "I'm Amerina." But I thk this rerd [<em>Expectatns</em>] was Amerina, and I fely have been embraced by that muny, and I thk 's rad.</p><style data-emotn="css 1u2hsbb">{posn:relative;paddg-bottom:56.25%;} .e1c5ygqq0{posn:absolute;top:0rem;left:0rem;width:100%;height:100%;}</style><div data-embed="iame" data-no-id="34" class="embed align-center css-1u2hsbb e1c5ygqq1"><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om Third party. You may be able to fd the same ntent another format, or you may be able to fd more rmatn, at their web se.</div><div data-embed class="embed css-0 ektkw391"><style data-emotn="css 1d3w5wq">{width:100%;}</style><div height="380" class="css-1d3w5wq ektkw390"></div><style data-emotn="css 11gaeat">{borr:none;overflow:hidn;}</style><iame ameBorr="0" allowTransparency="te" allow="encrypted-media" height="380" width="100%" aria-hidn="te" data-src=" class=" e1c5ygqq0 lazyload css-11gaeat ektkw392"></iame></div></div><p data-no-id="35" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>It is rad. T Bone Burt ed to tell me when we were makg our rerd, <em>The Story</em>—he's such an encyclopedia of roots mic—he thks should all be lled rock and roll. Everythg should be lled rock and roll.</p><p data-no-id="36" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> I kd of agree.</p><p data-no-id="37" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>I mean, I don't know. Sure. I'm que fortable wh the phrase Amerina the days.</p><p data-no-id="38" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I like bee of what you said, the pany is so good. </p><p data-no-id="39" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>I don't even know if 's a mily anymore. I jt thk 's Amerin roots and rock and roll mic wh a md towards progrsive thkg and cln. It's like an answer to s oppose a certa way. You n fd Amerina mic everythg you jt said, except for Radhead. Anythg om Tom Petty to Lucda Williams to the Alabama Shak to Pearl Jam all feel Amerina to me, at least the psyche and the way of life that sort of enpass Amerin roots mic wh an eye for cln and platformg unrserved people. It's like misf toys.</p><p data-no-id="40" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> I love what you said, that 's an answer to s oppose, meang Amerina mic is kd of that Na Simone quote of: Art should reflect the tim. Even if they're unfortable nversatns for some people, beg brave enough to put that a song do move the needle.<br /></p><p data-no-id="41" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ:</strong> Brandi, you mentned this your book and ma a buzz at the 2018 Amerina Mic Awards, when <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Tyler Chilrs said" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">Tyler Chilrs said</a> that he ma “untry mic”—he dimished the value, I gus, of "Amerina mic." I thk om a fan pot of view, some people expect Amerina artists to be gunng for untry mic, that pop rad, top-10 chart. I wonr if matters to you at all, and how you pare the two genr?</p><div size="medium" data-embed="body-image" data-no-id="42" class="align-center size-medium embed css-1736von e1xqj1sx4"><div class="css-uwraif e1xqj1sx3"><img alt="2019 bonnaroo mic arts ftival day 4" tle="2019 Bonnaroo Mic & Arts Ftival - Day 4" loadg="lazy" width="3000" height="1990" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="css-0 exi4f7p0" /><div class="css-swqnqv e1xqj1sx2"><div class="css-8h7i7x e1xqj1sx1">Brandi Carlile performs durg the 2019 Bonnaroo Mic & Arts Ftival Manchter, Tennsee.</div><figptn class="css-1am3yn9 enfs9c50"><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd2">Tim Mosenfelr</span><span class="css-1vpjmnm e6iqd0">//</span><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd1">Getty Imag</span></figptn></div></div></div><p data-no-id="43" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>One of them, I thk, might be a closed door to me. And when appears that 's open, I'm spic of . I thk uld be a ltle tokenizg at tim, pecially where the rporate si of that genre is ncerned. And I don't have a md towards , bee I fd everythg that I need the place where I n effect the most important change. I don't know Tyler, but I'll be really hont wh you, I have a shload of rpect for him, pecially after his speech on <em>Long Vlent History</em> and the work that he's done to get sober. If that's the person I thk he is, I don't thk he would give that same speech now, unrstandg who was there, who was beg honored, and why was important to . I don't thk he would stand up ont of all those people and say, "I don't want to belong to you. I want to belong to this." Bee I don't thk reflects where his md is at or has e to. And actually, I n see what he's sayg: He's protective of the origal ncept of untry mic, and he needs to not mean somethg polilly isolatg, but sometim jt do. </p><p data-no-id="44" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">The genr have been flux and splter, they've been like church. That's why we have nam like Amerin roots and hellbilly and bluegrass and folk and Amerina and untry and untry Wtern, tradnal untry, morn untry, pop untry. I'm not tryg to add fuel to the fire of that fight. I'm jt acknowledgg that there's a place where I feel that I n work wh. I n feel accepted a muny of people that are actively platformg people of lor—not tokenizg, but platformg people of lor—and platformg queer people, and also actively addrsg thgs like class divisn and progrsive mdns. That jt terts me so much that I n't really get distracted by the other ncept. </p><p data-no-id="45" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">I thk that if me and Tyler Chilrs sat down and had a ffee—not a beer—that we would probably e to pretty much the exact same ncln, wh a ep and nate love and appreciatn for untry mic and what 's done for our liv. It's a long answer, but that's the way I feel.</p><div data-ad-exclu class="css-8c6v ehha8ut0">This ntent is imported om youTube. 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width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="e1f7ylgd5 css-g939jb exi4f7p0" /></div></div></div><p data-no-id="47" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ: </strong>Do you ever thk about outreach to fans of untry mic who might not realize that Amerina has bee this muny of artists who are dog this prott mic, dog this clive platformg, like you said? Do you thk people are aware of ?</p><p data-no-id="48" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>I hadn't thought about , bee I thk people will fd their way to the mic that tells the story of their life. You thk about mastream untry and there are some great stori there right now. I mean, <a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="my girl Maren [Morris] tellg the story of the other half of the human race all the time" class="body-lk css-umdwtv et3p2gv0">my girl Maren [Morris] tellg the story of the other half of the human race all the time</a>, every sgle day, and jt owng that genre. All I n do is jt raise a roof on that girl and say, “Keep dog , 'e we need you there.” Mickey Guyton wh “Black Like Me?” The stori are gettg out to ears who need to hear them. </p><p data-no-id="49" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>Good songs are good songs, jt wh different sonic backdrops and a different genre slapped on there.<br /></p><p data-no-id="50" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ: </strong>As some of the very few queer women wrg Amerina mic right now and jt beg seemgly fearls wh pronouns and the way you talk about love and g out, do you ever feel any prsure?</p><p data-no-id="51" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>No. I thk 's our rponsibily to wre about what we see and what we feel and what's happeng our liv. The queer experience is gog to make s way there, bee we are queer. But also, that isn't our entire inty. I don't want to feel the prsure to talk about the queer experience every song or all the time. I thk Brandi walks this le really well. She talks about human experienc and she happens to be queer. That is important for people to see, like, "Oh, this is a love song." It happens to be a love song to a woman, but a straight man n listen to that and thk of his wife. </p><p data-no-id="52" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>I ed to wre songs tentnally vague. I wanted people to be able to experience through their own lens. But say even a song like “The Mother," I very specifilly say, "I am the mother of Evangele," which is a rare name. It's too specific to universally be a cloak that anyone n put on, yet 's probably the most related-to song I've ever wrten by fathers and mothers, gay, straight, trans, also kids feelg affectn towards their parents, people wh sons stead of dghters. When sounds like the tth, they feel . I'm seeg that more and more straight people are intifyg wh gay relatnships, which is like, "Oh my God, that's actually what we always... "</p><p data-no-id="53" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> 'Cse they're jt relatnships. It jt happens to look a ltle different.</p><p data-no-id="54" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>They e wh a whole bunch of hysteril stereotyp, but yeah.</p><p data-no-id="55" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I jt bought a Suba. I'm super stoked about .</p><p data-no-id="56" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>You went there.</p><p data-no-id="57" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> I really did. And we have a p bull. We've got all the gay thgs. The first time I heard you sg “The Mother,” Brandi, was at the Basement East [ Nashville]. I cried so hard. I'm not even planng on beg a mother or thkg about that part of my life really yet. It's such a relatable song, bee 's this human tth.</p><p data-no-id="58" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>Thanks, buddy.</p><div size="medium" data-embed="body-image" data-no-id="59" class="align-center size-medium embed css-1736von e1xqj1sx4"><div class="css-uwraif e1xqj1sx3"><img alt="62nd annual grammy awards show" tle="62nd Annual GRAMMY Awards - Show" loadg="lazy" width="4000" height="2667" dg="async" data-nimg="1" style="lor: transparent; width: 100%; height: to;" siz="100vw" srcSet=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" src="" class="css-0 exi4f7p0" /><div class="css-swqnqv e1xqj1sx2"><div class="css-8h7i7x e1xqj1sx1">Tanya Tucker and Brandi Carlile perform onstage durg the 62nd Annual Grammy Awards on January 26, 2020.</div><figptn class="css-1am3yn9 enfs9c50"><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd2">Kevork Djansezian</span><span class="css-1vpjmnm e6iqd0">//</span><span class="css-1mcfn5x e6iqd1">Getty Imag</span></figptn></div></div></div><p data-no-id="60" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ: </strong>I me to Amerina mic mostly through male artists—my dad listened to a lot of male artists, so therefore I did—and then you two e along and the way that you sg, actually hearg your voic, they break and they soar and they wail sometim, 's jt so much emotn. It feels like female emotn. Do feel as emotnal to sg like that as is to listen to that?</p><p data-no-id="61" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>Nobody really mentns that that's also an Amerina intifier—really odd and brave and strange sgers. Like Emmylou Harris, super strange and character-filled voice. Lucda Williams, one of the most character-filled voic Amerina history. That had an enormo fluence on me, and feels amazg to sg like that.</p><p data-no-id="62" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0">In the panmic, I sang ls than I've sung sce I was 8 years old, and actually ed me mental health problems and physil health problems, not havg that outlet, that screamg, soarg, breakg, emotnal wail that I get to do for a job on a regular basis. My wife always tells me—we'll get an argument and she'll be like, "You have an outlet, darlg." And 's like, after the panmic, she's fuckg right. She's exactly right. I do. And I did. And I'm gog to aga. But yeah, to sg like that, 's a cisn. It's a skill, but 's also a lack of one. And 's very cidly Amerina.</p><div supprsHydratnWarng data-no-id="63" data-embed="edorial-lk" class="embed css-0 e9hzx6g0"><asi class="css-1643r8a e6pr2lz5"><h6 class="css-l3w2xc e6pr2lz3"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-156fvc1 eagam8p0"></span><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Related Stori</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><ul class="css-c4s2gi e6pr2lz4"><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/entertament/mic/a36718725/llie-jordan-terview-panys-g/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Gog to Church wh Llie Jordan" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="llie jordan" tle="Gog to Church wh Llie Jordan" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Gog to Church wh Llie Jordan</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/entertament/mic/a35423605/tj-osborne-man-wallen-untry-mic/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="What Osborne and Wallen Say About Country Mic" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="tj osborne man wallen" tle="What Osborne and Wallen Say About Country Mic" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">What Osborne and Wallen Say About Country Mic</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li><li class="css-79zw4t e6pr2lz2"><a href="/food-drk/food/a36674536/stephanie-beatriz--the-heights-empanadas-recipe-terview/" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Stephanie Beatriz and Her Mom's Empanadas" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Edorial Lks" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" class="css-1bn7a5e e1c1bym14"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><img src="" alt="stephanie beatriz" tle="Stephanie Beatriz and Her Mom's Empanadas" width="120" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" image-align="left" class="css-1l0u1 e6pr2lz0" /><span class="css-8lle59 e6pr2lz1">Stephanie Beatriz and Her Mom's Empanadas</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></a></li></ul></asi></div><p data-no-id="64" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>I miss beltg on stage so much. It's like this spirual release, and 's the bt gift ever. I ed to be mil theater... that was the first time I got spired to belt. Then there is fely that Amerina, pecially Brandi. Hearg some of the not she hs and go for live and on her rerd fely ma me go, "Okay, I'm gog to do that on me." </p><p data-no-id="65" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>ESQ:</strong> I jt have one more qutn. Of each others' songs, do you have a favore? One you’d want to ver, maybe?</p><p data-no-id="66" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP: </strong>Well, “Turpente” is awome. I love that one, but god, “The Story.” “The Story,” du. I'm thkg of a specific moment though, at the end of the rerdg where your voice breaks...</p><p data-no-id="67" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>It's like a squeak. And you know, that's a Sheryl Crow thg. It's a song lled “Crash and Burn,” and she do this squeak. It happened on accint on “The Story.” Katie, I was blown away by “Lovg Her” and “Grace.”</p><p data-no-id="68" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> ["Grace Has a Gun"] is kd of a trmatic one, but yeah.</p><p data-no-id="69" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>Is a te story?</p><p data-no-id="70" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>KP:</strong> It sounds more tense than was. It is jt about a toxic relatnship wh my first girliend, and yeah, jt some mental health issu. Copenncy. There might've been a gun, but that's all I'm gog to say. </p><p data-no-id="71" class="css-18vfmjb et3p2gv0"><strong>BC: </strong>Brilliant song. </p><style data-emotn="css 6s2y3d">{background-lor:#F5F6F8;borr:none;borr-radi:0.625rem;box-shadow:0.4rem 0.4rem 0 #15263D;clear:both;lor:#000;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;marg-bottom:1.875rem;marg-top:1.875rem;paddg:1.875rem 1.25rem;text-align:center;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.4;paddg:1.25rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.25rem;le-height:1.4;}} b, strong{font-fay:her;font-weight:bold;} em, i{font-fay:her;font-style:alic;}</style><p data-no-id="72" class="body-tip css-6s2y3d et3p2gv0">Get unlimed accs to Esquire's Pri 2021 verage. <style data-emotn="css 15g0gpe">{background:#FF3A30;background-lor:#FF3A30;-webk-background-size:100% 200%;background-size:100% 200%;borr:th solid 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2ok9l4">{marg-top:1.875rem;borr-top:th solid #595959;}</style><div data-jam-id="thor-b" class="css-2ok9l4 e13rjwo40"><style data-emotn="css f0b5z8">{display:grid;grid-template-lumns:to 1;grid-lumn-gap:0.625rem;paddg-top:1.25rem;paddg-bottom:1.25rem;clear:both;}</style><div class="css-f0b5z8 e19xk9rq8"><style data-emotn="css irehmq">{borr-radi:50%;height:60px;width:60px;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{width:40px;height:40px;}}</style><span class="css-irehmq e19xk9rq1"><style data-emotn="css o0wq4v">{width:100%;height:100%;borr-radi:50%;vertil-align:middle;object-f:ver;}</style><img src="" alt="Headshot of Sarah Rense" tle="Headshot of Sarah Rense" width="100%" height="100%" dg="async" loadg="lazy" class="css-o0wq4v e19xk9rq3" /></span><div><style data-emotn="css 3sqxrq">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;grid-gap:4px;-webk-align-ems:basele;-webk-box-align:basele;-ms-flex-align:basele;align-ems:basele;-webk-box-flex-wrap:wrap;-webk-flex-wrap:wrap;-ms-flex-wrap:wrap;flex-wrap:wrap;}</style><div class="css-3sqxrq e19xk9rq7"><span class="css-0 e19xk9rq5"><style data-emotn="css 1yunoig">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-lor:her;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-transform:upperse;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><style data-emotn="css 1kgdfad">{lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;text-transform:upperse;lor:#161616;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;letter-spacg:0.02rem;-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-lor:her;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-transform:upperse;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.4;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{font-size:0.70003rem;le-height:1.3;}}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href="/thor/14093/sarah-rense/" class="e1c1bym13 css-1kgdfad e1c1bym14"><span>Sarah Rense</span></a></span></div><style data-emotn="css 1b1navg">{display:-webk-box;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1rem;le-height:1.4;overflow:hidn;paddg-top:0.3125rem;-webk-box-orient:vertil;-webk-le-clamp:5;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{-webk-le-clamp:10;}}>*{display:le;} em{font-fay:CharterItalic,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-style:alic;} p{marg:0rem;} p a{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;} p a:hover{text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><div class="css-1b1navg e19xk9rq4"><p>Sarah Rense is the Liftyle Edor at Esquire, where she vers tech, food, drks, home, and more. </p></div></div></div></div><style data-emotn="css ciejky">{clear:both;marg-top:1.25rem;}</style><div id="journey-le" class="css-ciejky e1cslvxz0"></div><div class="css-79elbk eg8z2o90"><div class="css-79elbk e1tp40ll1"><div data-anchor-id="P0-0" class="css-0 e1tp40ll0"></div></div><style data-emotn="css hi6ssp">{display:block;grid-area:article_body;grid-lumn:article_body-start/article_body-end;grid-row:to;jtify-self:center;marg:1.25rem 0 0;}@media prt{{display:none;}}@media(max-width: 30rem){{width:100%;}}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{m-height:28rem;}}@media(m-width: 30rem){{width:488px;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{width:612px;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{max-width:40.25rem;}}</style><div class="css-hi6ssp eg8z2o92"></div></div></div></div><div></div><style data-emotn="css 6b9rfj">{display:block;-webk-flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-ms-flex-preferred-size:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-webk-box-flex:0;-webk-flex-grow:0;-ms-flex-posive:0;flex-grow:0;-webk-flex-shrk:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrk:0;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="no-prt css-6b9rfj ewisyje1"><div><style data-emotn="css 1tuodqg">{width:330px;paddg-left:30px;}</style><div id="ad-article-rail-flt-wrapper" class="vertil-ad css-1tuodqg eqm02p30"><style data-emotn="css w0cuw4">{display:block;posn:-webk-sticky;posn:sticky;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="vertilAdSticky css-w0cuw4 eqm02p32"><style data-emotn="css 9fasmy">{m-height:523px;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;-webk-box-pack:jtify;-webk-jtify-ntent:space-between;jtify-ntent:space-between;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{m-height:138px;}}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{ntent:"";display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;borr-bottom:th solid #E8E8E8;}}</style><div class="standard-article-vertil-ad css-9fasmy eqm02p31"><style data-emotn="css 14b96eg">{m-width:18.75rem;text-align:center;}</style><div id="gpt-ad-vertil-top" class="ad-ntaer css-14b96eg e1hka4w80"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div data-teractive="WatchNext-1" class="css-0 e10xr3vp6"><style data-emotn="css 1pqv15d">{marg-bottom:1.875rem;marg-top:1.875rem;paddg:0 0.938rem;}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{paddg:0 2.5rem;}}</style><div data-embed="watch-next" class="css-1pqv15d e10xr3vp5"><style data-emotn="css 604vx7">{text-align:center;marg:0 to;max-width:60rem;borr-top:0.125rem solid #15263D;}</style><div class="css-604vx7 e10xr3vp4"><style data-emotn="css 1sowyjy">{marg-bottom:1.25rem;}</style><div class="css-1sowyjy e10xr3vp3"><style data-emotn="css ju94x7">{marg:0rem;font-weight:normal;background-lor:#ffffff;lor:#000;borr:0.125rem solid #15263D;text-align:left;width:-webk-f-ntent;width:-moz-f-ntent;width:f-ntent;borr-radi:2rem;display:block;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:0.70028rem;le-height:1.2;letter-spacg:0.04rem;marg-top:-1rem;paddg:0.5rem 0.9375rem 0.25rem;text-transform:upperse;}</style><h6 class="css-ju94x7 e10xr3vp2"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><span class="css-0 e10xr3vp1">Watch Next</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><style data-emotn="css un61">{-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;font-fay:Lsanne,Lsanne-fallback,Arial,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;marg:0rem;m-height:to;paddg-top:1rem;text-align:left;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.5rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.875rem;le-height:1.3;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:2.125rem;le-height:1.2;}}</style><h6 class="css-un61 e10xr3vp0"> </h6></div><style data-emotn="css b3y6x">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;--aspect-rat:56.25%;} {posn:absolute;marg:0rem;}{ntent:"";display:block;height:0rem;width:100%;}@media(max-width: 30rem){{paddg-bottom:lc((45% / 1.16) + 20px + 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