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class="in-bookmark-fill" d="M23 3H20V0H19V3H16V4H19V7H20V4H23V3Z"></path></svg></span><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ ActnBarButtonText-bYXYuh iUEiRd bkefvo gkccfO">Save this story</span></button></div></div></div><div class="LightboxWrapper-dxsWBV hhylRt"><div class="ArticlePageChunksContent-etcMtP bwyLBj"><div data-ttid="ArticlePageChunks" class="ArticlePageChunks-fLyCVG Uozmo"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg">If there is a televisn show that has managed to harns the energy of the <a href=">Tmp</a> era—the mania and the chaos, the absurdy and the ln, the creepg nihilism and the spicn that thgs might sp out of ntrol—and channel to somethg special, whout ever explicly referencg polics, is “<a href=">Search Party</a>.” For five seasons, Sarah-Vlet Bliss and Charl Rogers’s satiril whodunn has followed a group of twentysomethg iends who set off to fd a missg peer as a means of validatg their own liv. The show whipsaws across ton and genr wh abandon, leang to s own sany and s characters’ misapprehensns.</p><p class="paywall">When “Search Party” first aired on TBS, 2016, was prented as a wkg mentary on lennials, but quickly abandoned that premise, morphg om a <a href=">Nancy Drew-style mystery</a> to a <a href=">screwball urt procral</a> to a <a href=">psychosexual thriller</a>. The show’s fifth and fal season, which premièred last week, tak on them of cult worship and eccentric entreprenrship (thk Elon Mk and Elizabeth Holm) before unspoolg a zombie-apolypse plotle. (It also gut-stars Jeff Goldblum.) At the center of the show’s ms is Alia Shawkat, the actrs who plays s protagonist and sctive villa, Dory Sief. We’ve watched Dory evolve om an aimls Brooklyn lennial to a murrer to an onle folk hero to a mental patient to a cult lear. She’s the harst type of character to play: someone so out of touch wh herself that she is nstantly beg a new person.</p><p class="paywall">For Shawkat, “Search Party” has also reprented a reer renaissance. The thirty-two-year-old is no stranger to televisn notoriety: at fourteen, she got her break playg the role of Maeby on “<a href=">Arrted Development</a>,” a show that ially flew unr the radar before acquired a voted fan base. Maeby, a moody teen-ager wh a renega sense of humor, beme inic enough that she fed Shawkat’s work for a long perd of time. Now “Search Party” and Dory have bee cult favor their own right. Shawkat is, many ways, the nsummate morn entertaer, keepg her hands many pots. She helped produce “Search Party,” and wrote the 2018 experimental die film “Duck Butter.” She’s a vout pater, and she’s workg on a new TV show based on the life of her father.</p><p class="paywall">Shawkat was New York Cy December to attend the première of “<a href=">Beg the Rirdos</a>,” an Aaron Sork project that chronicl the behd-the-scen cris of “I Love Lucy.” (Shawkat plays one of the show’s wrers.) Wh her signature eckl and mop of curls, Shawkat is unmissable person, and also disarmgly ank. We spoke over breakfast about the end of “Search Party,” her iend Brad Pt, and beg half Iraqi.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>“Search Party” has always been about chaos and tone-shiftg, but this season really go off the rails. Do you like the note ’s endg on?</strong></p><p class="paywall">We blow up the world this time, and feels like the appropriate endg.</p><div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--article-mid-ntent" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--article-mid-ntent nsumer-marketg-un__slot---ntent"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><p class="paywall"><strong>It’s funny. When the show first aired, was characterized as this lennial crique. But now nobody even r about lennials.</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-1 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">I thk, even at the begng, the show was mockg the ia of rg about lennial stuff. Dory is a character who’s so obssed wh disverg who she is, to the pot of actually killg someone by mistake. The shownners have always done a good job of beg aware of the culture we’re livg , and makg the show a satiril thg. And never takg too serly. That’s what’s funny about my character—she’s takg everythg so serly, and the rt of the world has gone haywire.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Do you spend any time wh Zoomers?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I have a small group of Zoomer iends. There are a lot of thgs they don’t know about, but they don’t want to know.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Like what?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Referenc. Even jt film referenc—actors, etc. They jt don’t have the need to imprs. And you’re, like, “But I spent so much time learng about this!” I feel like, when I was younger, was all about seemg like I knew about a lot of sh. From somethg as benign as movie referenc to . . . bad sex. All my twenti was bad sex! But the Zoomers are, like, “No, we only have betiful, nnected sexual experienc.” Well, good for you.</p><p class="paywall">Also, people my generatn battle their relatnship wh Instagram and social media. They’re on , but they hate themselv for beg on . The younger generatn don’t even qutn . They’re, like, “Whatever I do is up for grabs to share publicly, and what’s wrong wh that?” I very much enjoy takg long breaks om my phone.</p><div class="Contaer-bkChBi byNLHx"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>In this season, Dory be a kd of wellns gu wh a cult-lear edge. Did you get to any cultish figur while preparg for this season?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Dory kd of has the Theranos vibe, but I was more to Ram Dass, who I love and ed to listen to back the day.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-2 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>There’s a plotle about an enlightenment pill, which is unleashed on the public prematurely. Was there any nnectn to the vacce there, or ncern that might be perceived as a mentary on vacc?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk ’s more mentg on the ia of packaged wellns. Don’t do the work, take a pill! It’s easier. Not to judge meditn that sav lots of liv, but ’s about this ncept of “How do you get happy as fast as possible?”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Are you sceptible to dogma about wellns?</strong></p><p class="paywall">A ltle b, but not really. I’m still tryg to qu smokg. I’m not as balanced as I’d like to be. I do yoga. I get prsed, and yoga is the only thg that really brgs me out of .</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Did anythg about makg “Search Party” change when you migrated om TBS to HBO Max? A bigger budget?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I was hopg for a budget crease. [Lghs.] But there was not. The only thg I would say is, the wrers didn’t have to wre to mercial breaks. It’s better for the wrers—we’re ee to have flow. And now I feel like people n actually see the show. When we were shootg Brooklyn—pecially Brooklyn—you uld tell the viewership had creased. People would see out and on the street and be, like, “That’s fuckg ‘Search Party’!”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’re creded as a “creative producer” on the show. What do that mean?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I was always volved creatively, om the begng. At first, we didn’t know if would be anythg— was this pilot prentatn ia. We ma the pilot like an pennt film, kd of, before was attached to a work. I thk that’s also why I was able to be the lead, bee if “Search Party” was already attached to a work would have been harr for me to be the star of a TV show at that time.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-3 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Why would have been difficult to st you as the lead?</strong></p><p class="paywall">If ’s on a certa work, you have to screen tt. We were able to make “Search Party” exactly as we wanted , and hire the actors we wanted to hire. It was super gngy and lo-fi—stealg shots on subways, wearg some of our own cloth. All the crew was super young. There was nobody there tellg how to make , and what the tone is. When you’re tryg to expla a show to sus, ’s, like, “Tst me, ’s gog to be funny!” They don’t get .</p><div class="GenericCalloutWrapper-tojWn iHrxor llout--has-top-borr" data-ttid="GenericCallout"><figure class="AssetEmbedWrapper-eVDQiB byBkf asset-embed"><div class="AssetEmbedAssetContaer-eJxoAx dBHGoQ asset-embed__asset-ntaer"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO KhjZz AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset rponsive-image rponsive-image--expandable"><noscript><img alt="A closp portra of Alia Shawkat." class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src=" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w, 960w, 1280w, 1600w" siz="100vw"/></noscript></picture></span></div><div class="CaptnWrapper-jSZdqE iTuhkZ ptn AssetEmbedCaptn-fNQBPI fmQnYP asset-embed__ptn"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnText-bHjzlu iUEiRd hWyo iXWezO ptn__text">“Somethg about beg an actor is really embarrassg to me,” Shawkat says.</span></div></figure></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Have you ever tried to sell your own show?</strong></p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><asi class="PersistentAsiWrapper-VGrR daRVRt persistent-asi" style="posn:absolute;top:to;height:to" data-ttid="PersistentAsiWrapper"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="g51afw"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></asi></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="nh9zwg"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall">I’ve been dog that recently. Pchg is hard, bee ’s a very vulnerable experience. You have to be a showman. I’ve been makg televisn for so long, and I’m an actor, but a pch is my worst nightmare. It’s very embarrassg.</p><p class="paywall">That’s what’s so tertg about “Search Party”—we got to make five seasons slightly unr the radar. Now ’s gettg harr, bee I thk a lot of the works are basg cisns on algorhms. I swear to God, I ma this joke: people jt want dogs and robots. Then we were drivg L.A., and I saw a billboard for a Tom Hanks movie. And was lerally Tom Hanks, a dog, and a robot.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>What is the show you’re pchg?</strong></p><p class="paywall">It’s about my fay. My father is Middle Eastern, and he owns a strip club Palm Sprgs. So that’s the show. Knock on wood, we’ll be pchg pretty soon.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>He’s Iraqi, rrect? Did the recent hubbub around the twentieth anniversary of 9/11 rurface anythg tertg om that time your life?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-4 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">It’s so funny. I was talkg about this last night. My iend Natasha Lyonne was, like, “9/11, huh?” I was, like, “Why are we talkg about this?” And we all went to our 9/11 stori. I was eleven at the time, and obvly was very tense. I thk is funny that ’s jt a big “Oops!” to Iraq. Ameri was able to generate this fear and get everybody on board wh attackg and stroyg a untry that had absolutely nothg to do wh this terrorist attack. Now everybody is, like, “Oh, yeah . . . that’s weird.” Jon Stewart is the only one who’s, like, “What the fuck?” No one even r. It’s so sad.</p><p class="paywall">But yeah, my father was terrogated a lot. And my father lov Ameri so much! When all the Tmp stuff was happeng, was sad how the Amerin flag was reappropriated. You’d see a flag, and would be kd of sry. And my father would be, like, “That’s OUR flag! Don’t you ever nfe that wh somethg that’s not patrtic.”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Your Instagram is very lo-fi and very much not self-promotnal. You mostly jt post pictur of whatever patg you’re workg on. I have to image that your agents and managers are thkg you should change up a b.</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk they’re fely thkg that. I lete all the time. I’d rather jt not be on at all. But now “Search Party” and this movie are g out, and I should jt do a ltle ph and try to advertise myself. But I lerally have this fear that I’ll prs the wrong button and post a nu selfie, which I don’t even take. I have lots of iends who are actors who really e to their benef. They’re really dog a lot. I ed to judge , but now I don’t. It’s part of work.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>But then there is a certa éle layer of Hollywood that don’t even need to e social media. Someone like Jennifer Lawrence has the luxury of never needg to sell herself onle.</strong></p><p class="paywall">Tst me, I thk about that a lot. And I do have the moments where I’m, like, “If I were more active on social media, would lerally help my reer and make more people see the show?” But I jt don’t have a bra for that. And I’m always tryg to figure out my relatnship to : Jt bee I’m an actor, do that mean I’m pletely polilly awakened? Yeah, abortn rights are beg challenged right now, which is the most upsettg thg ever. I’m readg about and stayg up to date, but I don’t necsarily want to share my story. Would help? I don’t know.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Jeff Goldblum is your -star this season. Was he already a fan of the show, or did he have to be pched on ?</strong></p><p class="paywall">That character is such a loud, big character. We need a big name to really pull off. Every year, there are such well-wrten gut-star rol. We always try to get a big name or an tertg actor, and we’ve always been so succsful at . Goldblum hadn’t seen the show before, but they sent him the first uple of seasons. He watched , and he rpond to really well.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-5 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>What’s he like?</strong></p><p class="paywall">He’s as Jeff Goldblum-y as gets. There is no one else like him. There’s so much dialogue wh that role, and sometim ’s hard for olr actors to have that much dialogue every day. It’s hard for anyone. But he was so off-book and mil and loose. He me drsed, always. He’s que an sence—he was like a very cur child. He was, like, [dog a Jeff Goldbum voice] “Oh, my God, ’s youuuu. And you’re amaaazg.”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>He looks unbelievably good.</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk <em>he</em> has a fuckg route. He don’t have sugar, ffee. Whereas I was <em>expandg</em> as the season went on. He has a betiful wife who’s a dancer. He’s very shape and tune; his body is his stment. He looks better now than he did before, some ways.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’ve worked wh a lot of A-list Hollywood heavy hters: Nile Kidman, Osr Isaac, Javier Barm, Jeff Goldblum. Do you notice anythg different about the way they work?</strong></p><p class="paywall">They’re not on their cell phon. That’s hontly the biggt thg. I try not to brg my cell phone, bee ’s very distractg. But actors of a certa ilk, who have more rponsibily, they’re more like athlet. They’re very focsed and primed and physilly charged. They’re nservg their energy to release on mera.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="sxa67m"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall"><strong>You went viral 2020 when you were spotted hangg out wh Brad Pt, and tabloids spread the mor that you guys were datg. Is there still noff om that moment? People still followg you around, hopg to get close to Brad Pt?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Thank God, no. It me hot and left as fast as me . It happened durg <em class="small">COVID</em>, and I was alone wh . It was so weird. Now ’s like a weird dream, where I’m, like, Did that happen?</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-6 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Was he amed by ?</strong></p><p class="paywall">He had no awarens of at all. Which is so funny. Bee he don’t read that sh. I was, like, “You know everyone thks we’re datg? And there’s this whole thg, and I’m beg followed.” And he was, like, “I’m sorry. It happens. If you hang out wh me, happens.” He had no awarens of at all.</p><p class="paywall">But the other day I was at my grandmother’s hoe, my father’s mother. She’s been this untry for over thirty years and still barely speaks English. An Iraqi Mlim woman. She’s stg there, watchg her Turkish soap opera. And next to her is this old gossip magaze wh Brad’s face, and my face a small circle. And says “Brad’s New Girl!” And then on the si ’s old Instagram photos of me and iends at dner. It was, like, “ALL ABOUT ALIA.” This whole ma-up story about how we were healg each other by spendg time together. All this crazy sh. I looked at my grandmother, like, “Why do you have this?” She’s, like, “It’s you and this movie star! And ’s your face.” I was embarrassed by . I told her she had to throw away. And she lghed.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>At the time, were you not entertaed by at all?</strong></p><p class="paywall">At the time, was not fun at all. I’m not an actor who has ever alt wh the paparazzi. They don’t know who the fuck I am. There’s somethg ironic about . It has nothg to do wh Brad as a person—he’s a great fuckg guy. But of urse the ia of me beg romantilly volved wh an olr whe guy is what gets me the most attentn. Not a twenty-year reer. That’s what gets me. And ’s ironic and gross and stupid. But yeah, aga, was super brief. And I was fe. I was shaken up by , bee I have a stud Highland Park where I go every day. And I was, like, There are the photos of me rryg way too much sh to get si. There are all the embarrassg photos, they had followed me there. Then they jt disappeared, and now they don’t give a sh.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You got your start playg Maeby on “Arrted Development,” and you’ve spoken about how that role boxed you for a long time—people always wanted you to play a pissy teen-ager. The days, which character f your reer: Maeby or Dory?</strong></p><p class="paywall">For so long my life, even when I wasn’t workg for a while, was Maeby. That’s . I n qu actg, and I’ll always be Maeby. And kd of hnted me. I was bter. It has shifted to more of an over-all awarens of my work general, which is always rehg as an actor. I’m no longer jt known for this one thg that I did when I was fifteen years old. I’m jt another actrs.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>When you were playg Maeby, did you unrstand the humor of “Arrted Development”?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-7 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">To a gree. When we’d do the table read, sometim me and Michael [Cera] would get lghs, and we didn’t necsarily know why. The ct jok, we unrstood, but sometim certa sexual nuendos went over my head.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>“Arrted Development” me back 2018, a few months after your -star Jefey Tambor was acced of sexual harrassment. There was a roundtable terview wh the st that beme ntroversial, and you were one of the few people willg to speak out agast Tambor. Did that cloud the entire experience of “Arrted Development”?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Not the whole experience. It was really only the prs of the last season that was the bummer. We all got ught this wave, and we were unprepared. I did my bt to munite, but jt got really msy.</p><p class="paywall">But so much of was amazg. Michael Cera is still one of my bt iends. At the time, nobody knew of the show. And beme this thg after we had wrapped. It was a rare experience that not a lot of actors go through, where you make somethg that you feel like nobody is watchg, and years after you do you start gettg regnized for on a crazy sle. The other day, Washgton Square Park, there was this young kid playg chs, about seventeen. He was, like, “Are you Maeby? I love that show.” That show has locked to a certa young llege stunt. They’re, like, “Here’s your dorm-room key, and here’s the box set of ‘Arrted Development.’ ”</p><p class="paywall">Those first three seasons, I thk, are perfect. It’s geni and hilar. The world has changed a lot. The wrg of the show still holds up, bee ’s not apologetic. It’s offensive, and funny, and sultg, and gross, and all the thgs that people shy away om now. Bee everyone is tryg to make stuff that’s important. But art is supposed to be offensive, slightly, pecially wh humor.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="95mirh"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="oxtoe9"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall"><strong>This is the fal season of “Search Party,” but ntent never really di anymore. There’s always potential for a reboot. Do you feel that, when you’re workg on a project now?</strong></p><p class="paywall">That is kd of the thg now. Everybody wants to remisce, so ’s always, like, Remember your favore show? Let’s brg back! “Fuller Hoe.” But nobody needs that. But I gus some people did, bee was a huge h. I’m a ltle more, like, “I want to move on.” As much as I love “Search Party,” I’m ready to move on. I don’t really want to go back to dog old characters. It’s not worth .</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’ve mentned that you were always typest as a moody teen-ager or an ethnic sikick. Do you notice any patterns the rol that are brought to you now?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-8 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">I gotta say, rehgly ls. It’s not a type, necsarily. But there’s fely still: a queer Arab; a different, quirky girl. Sure, I gus I check those box.</p><p class="paywall">It’s funny. When I was younger, whatever ethnicy the role was I uld play . I had curly hair and eckl. And people were, like,“Yeah, you uld be Rsian!” I was, like, “Yeah, sure.” But that whole nversatn has shifted so much. Nobody ed to re about me beg half Iraqi. If anythg, was somethg I ed to ver up. You’re tryg to f . But ’s swung the other way, for optics. I feel like the dtry is, like, “We are all about beg equal!” Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. O.K. It’s funny how the dtry pats self on the back before ’s even done anythg.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>How much do you ncern yourself wh beg an artist and dog a very specific thg, vers beg a workg actor and gettg jobs?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I fluctuate between those two ias a lot. Somethg about beg an actor is really embarrassg to me. And yet I’m also still really proud to be an actor, and I admire actors. But ’s a battle. There are some moments when I feel like I’m makg art, and the work is nnected to some unnsc msage I’m tryg to relay about thgs I thk are important. Wh “Beg the Rirdos” and “Search Party,” I’m really proud to share those stori. Is that always gog to be the se? No.</p><p class="paywall">Wh the streamg servic and ntent beg the way is now, feels like the stud system aga. There are only five slots, and you’ve got to get a al wh one of them. I wonr if that’s gog to llapse, where actors bee how jokers were Shakpearean tim: actors were the lowt-level job. It’s hard to image that now, bee actors are so overpaid. They’re looked at as royalty, celebri. I wonr how many people would still be actors if there wasn’t fame and money attached to , if was jt a job.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>And yet the ia of the “movie star” is beg obsolete.</strong></p><p class="paywall">There are too many punctur . An dividual actor n’t get as powerful anymore. That’s what’s so funny about beg an actor: your whole life, people jt regnize you, and they only see the character that you played. But good actors are people who love people. And that’s hard when you bee really regnizable, bee you get further and further away om people. People are lookg at you like you’re a ge, and you isolate yourself and start only hangg out wh other actors. And then all of a sudn your life experience gets really small, which is really hard for work. If you don’t have life experience and you’re jt hangg out at fancy hotels wh famo actors all the time, ’s hard to feel like you’re an artist anymore. What am I actually referencg? Jt Hollywood parti? That sucks. Life is everywhere. To lm yourself down enough to notice what’s around you and tune is a really good place to be.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>What do patg fulfill for you?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-9 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">A lot. It’s the oppose of actg, bee ’s very ternal. Tryg to draw an image, and tryg to solve —’s very satisfyg. It’s like wrg, where you have to go every day. You might not even pat every day. Sometim I’ll jt s there and doodle and smoke cigarett, but eventually somethg happens. I love . I’m so grateful for . In between jobs, you feel a ltle b vulnerable, and tired. It’s so fun to wake up, make myself ffee, get drsed, and go to work all day. And to practice gettg fortable beg alone aga, lettg go of whatever I jt did, and jt stg wh my thoughts.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="y3qvad"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 PaywallInleBarrierWhWrapperGrid-fyrGfS kLQIUk grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="body body__le-barrier article__body"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"><asi class="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper-iBnuqk lfXXa-D" data-ttid="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper"><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--paywall-le-barrier" role="prentatn" aria-live="pole" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--paywall-le-barrier"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></asi></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ContentWrapperGrid-fvkmBv brYtrA grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="body body__ntaer"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"></div></div></div></div></div></div></article><div class="ContentFooterWrapper-jVNdRG dTJkpP ArticlePageContentFooterGrid-ccsXYy eMZRHU article-body__footer"><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="LkStackWrapper-NFLYw kgtXXB lkstack" data-ttid="LkStack"><div class="SectnTleRoot-dBGvdq kjAxEG LkStackHear-lKjbE hejl lk-stack--headg" data-ttid="SectnTle"><h2 class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SectnTleHed-dKqZet dxqEAa dqtvfu jttyjJ">More New Yorker Conversatns</h2></div><div class="LkStackContent-jyKicS gPhyME"><ul class="LkStackList-gGcjdZ dnMwpz"><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Eva Longoria brgs <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/eva-longoria-brgs-lato-life-to-the-screen" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">Lato life to the screen</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p><a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/harvey-karp-knows-how-to-make-babi-happy" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">Harvey Karp</a> knows how to make babi happy.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Tx explas why <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/tx-explas-why-were-datg-all-wrong" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">we’re datg all wrong</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Ken Jenngs has some <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/ken-jenngs-has-some-qutns-about-ath" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">qutns about ath</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Llie Marmon Silko <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/llie-marmon-silko-saw--g" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">saw g</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Tom Hanks on the rewards 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siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></picture></span></a></div><div class="ContributorBContent-ubQdr jZTSSi"><div class="ContributorBHear-ledood XOIEx"></div><div class="ContributorBB-fBolsO giFhKz"><a href="/ntributors/rrie-battan">Carrie Battan</a> began ntributg to The New Yorker 2015 and beme a staff wrer 2018.</div><div class="ContributorBFooter-brqDlv ezUmSv"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div data-ttid="TagCloudWrapper" class="TagCloudWrapper-gGgndx ctyZyK ContentFooterTagCloud-krQmRG ZLGh"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ TagCloudSectnHear-cOforY iUEiRd bPyAoD kQQRmu">More:</span><a href="/tag/terview" class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd 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class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Vivek Ramaswamy Is Not the Next Tmp" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">Many the prs have clared the entreprenr and polil novice “Tmp’s heir.” The parison sells the former Print short.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" 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data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl ldWYvC summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Daily Comment</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">Donald Tmp was absent, but the fissur he has opened the G.O.P. took center stage.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Benjam Wallace-Wells</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff hlYhBH summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm fvDIAb" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl ldWYvC summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">The Front Row</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">The first feature film by the director of “Passag” shows the perils that arise when gay liv mt be lived secrecy.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Richard Brody</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff hlYhBH summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm fvDIAb" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div 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target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">How the Authors of the Bible Spun Triumph om Defeat</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="How the Authors of the Bible Spun Triumph om Defeat" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">History may be wrten by the victors, but the world’s most fluential text om antiquy’s biggt losers.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Adam 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class="in-bookmark-fill" d="M23 3H20V0H19V3H16V4H19V7H20V4H23V3Z"></path></svg></span><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ ActnBarButtonText-bYXYuh iUEiRd bkefvo gkccfO">Save this story</span></button></div></div></div><div class="LightboxWrapper-dxsWBV hhylRt"><div class="ArticlePageChunksContent-etcMtP bwyLBj"><div data-ttid="ArticlePageChunks" class="ArticlePageChunks-fLyCVG Uozmo"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="has-dropp has-dropp__lead-standard-headg">If there is a televisn show that has managed to harns the energy of the <a href=">Tmp</a> era—the mania and the chaos, the absurdy and the ln, the creepg nihilism and the spicn that thgs might sp out of ntrol—and channel to somethg special, whout ever explicly referencg polics, is “<a href=">Search Party</a>.” For five seasons, Sarah-Vlet Bliss and Charl Rogers’s satiril whodunn has followed a group of twentysomethg iends who set off to fd a missg peer as a means of validatg their own liv. The show whipsaws across ton and genr wh abandon, leang to s own sany and s characters’ misapprehensns.</p><p class="paywall">When “Search Party” first aired on TBS, 2016, was prented as a wkg mentary on lennials, but quickly abandoned that premise, morphg om a <a href=">Nancy Drew-style mystery</a> to a <a href=">screwball urt procral</a> to a <a href=">psychosexual thriller</a>. The show’s fifth and fal season, which premièred last week, tak on them of cult worship and eccentric entreprenrship (thk Elon Mk and Elizabeth Holm) before unspoolg a zombie-apolypse plotle. (It also gut-stars Jeff Goldblum.) At the center of the show’s ms is Alia Shawkat, the actrs who plays s protagonist and sctive villa, Dory Sief. We’ve watched Dory evolve om an aimls Brooklyn lennial to a murrer to an onle folk hero to a mental patient to a cult lear. She’s the harst type of character to play: someone so out of touch wh herself that she is nstantly beg a new person.</p><p class="paywall">For Shawkat, “Search Party” has also reprented a reer renaissance. The thirty-two-year-old is no stranger to televisn notoriety: at fourteen, she got her break playg the role of Maeby on “<a href=">Arrted Development</a>,” a show that ially flew unr the radar before acquired a voted fan base. Maeby, a moody teen-ager wh a renega sense of humor, beme inic enough that she fed Shawkat’s work for a long perd of time. Now “Search Party” and Dory have bee cult favor their own right. Shawkat is, many ways, the nsummate morn entertaer, keepg her hands many pots. She helped produce “Search Party,” and wrote the 2018 experimental die film “Duck Butter.” She’s a vout pater, and she’s workg on a new TV show based on the life of her father.</p><p class="paywall">Shawkat was New York Cy December to attend the première of “<a href=">Beg the Rirdos</a>,” an Aaron Sork project that chronicl the behd-the-scen cris of “I Love Lucy.” (Shawkat plays one of the show’s wrers.) Wh her signature eckl and mop of curls, Shawkat is unmissable person, and also disarmgly ank. We spoke over breakfast about the end of “Search Party,” her iend Brad Pt, and beg half Iraqi.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>“Search Party” has always been about chaos and tone-shiftg, but this season really go off the rails. Do you like the note ’s endg on?</strong></p><p class="paywall">We blow up the world this time, and feels like the appropriate endg.</p><div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--article-mid-ntent" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--article-mid-ntent nsumer-marketg-un__slot---ntent"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><p class="paywall"><strong>It’s funny. When the show first aired, was characterized as this lennial crique. But now nobody even r about lennials.</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-1 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">I thk, even at the begng, the show was mockg the ia of rg about lennial stuff. Dory is a character who’s so obssed wh disverg who she is, to the pot of actually killg someone by mistake. The shownners have always done a good job of beg aware of the culture we’re livg , and makg the show a satiril thg. And never takg too serly. That’s what’s funny about my character—she’s takg everythg so serly, and the rt of the world has gone haywire.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Do you spend any time wh Zoomers?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I have a small group of Zoomer iends. There are a lot of thgs they don’t know about, but they don’t want to know.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Like what?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Referenc. Even jt film referenc—actors, etc. They jt don’t have the need to imprs. And you’re, like, “But I spent so much time learng about this!” I feel like, when I was younger, was all about seemg like I knew about a lot of sh. From somethg as benign as movie referenc to . . . bad sex. All my twenti was bad sex! But the Zoomers are, like, “No, we only have betiful, nnected sexual experienc.” Well, good for you.</p><p class="paywall">Also, people my generatn battle their relatnship wh Instagram and social media. They’re on , but they hate themselv for beg on . The younger generatn don’t even qutn . They’re, like, “Whatever I do is up for grabs to share publicly, and what’s wrong wh that?” I very much enjoy takg long breaks om my phone.</p><div class="Contaer-bkChBi byNLHx"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>In this season, Dory be a kd of wellns gu wh a cult-lear edge. Did you get to any cultish figur while preparg for this season?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Dory kd of has the Theranos vibe, but I was more to Ram Dass, who I love and ed to listen to back the day.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-2 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>There’s a plotle about an enlightenment pill, which is unleashed on the public prematurely. Was there any nnectn to the vacce there, or ncern that might be perceived as a mentary on vacc?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk ’s more mentg on the ia of packaged wellns. Don’t do the work, take a pill! It’s easier. Not to judge meditn that sav lots of liv, but ’s about this ncept of “How do you get happy as fast as possible?”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Are you sceptible to dogma about wellns?</strong></p><p class="paywall">A ltle b, but not really. I’m still tryg to qu smokg. I’m not as balanced as I’d like to be. I do yoga. I get prsed, and yoga is the only thg that really brgs me out of .</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Did anythg about makg “Search Party” change when you migrated om TBS to HBO Max? A bigger budget?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I was hopg for a budget crease. [Lghs.] But there was not. The only thg I would say is, the wrers didn’t have to wre to mercial breaks. It’s better for the wrers—we’re ee to have flow. And now I feel like people n actually see the show. When we were shootg Brooklyn—pecially Brooklyn—you uld tell the viewership had creased. People would see out and on the street and be, like, “That’s fuckg ‘Search Party’!”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’re creded as a “creative producer” on the show. What do that mean?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I was always volved creatively, om the begng. At first, we didn’t know if would be anythg— was this pilot prentatn ia. We ma the pilot like an pennt film, kd of, before was attached to a work. I thk that’s also why I was able to be the lead, bee if “Search Party” was already attached to a work would have been harr for me to be the star of a TV show at that time.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-3 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Why would have been difficult to st you as the lead?</strong></p><p class="paywall">If ’s on a certa work, you have to screen tt. We were able to make “Search Party” exactly as we wanted , and hire the actors we wanted to hire. It was super gngy and lo-fi—stealg shots on subways, wearg some of our own cloth. All the crew was super young. There was nobody there tellg how to make , and what the tone is. When you’re tryg to expla a show to sus, ’s, like, “Tst me, ’s gog to be funny!” They don’t get .</p><div class="GenericCalloutWrapper-tojWn iHrxor llout--has-top-borr" data-ttid="GenericCallout"><figure class="AssetEmbedWrapper-eVDQiB byBkf asset-embed"><div class="AssetEmbedAssetContaer-eJxoAx dBHGoQ asset-embed__asset-ntaer"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO KhjZz AssetEmbedRponsiveAsset-cXBNxi eCxVQK asset-embed__rponsive-asset rponsive-image rponsive-image--expandable"><noscript><img alt="A closp portra of Alia Shawkat." class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src=" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w, 960w, 1280w, 1600w" siz="100vw"/></noscript></picture></span></div><div class="CaptnWrapper-jSZdqE iTuhkZ ptn AssetEmbedCaptn-fNQBPI fmQnYP asset-embed__ptn"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ CaptnText-bHjzlu iUEiRd hWyo iXWezO ptn__text">“Somethg about beg an actor is really embarrassg to me,” Shawkat says.</span></div></figure></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Have you ever tried to sell your own show?</strong></p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><asi class="PersistentAsiWrapper-VGrR daRVRt persistent-asi" style="posn:absolute;top:to;height:to" data-ttid="PersistentAsiWrapper"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="g51afw"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></asi></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="nh9zwg"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall">I’ve been dog that recently. Pchg is hard, bee ’s a very vulnerable experience. You have to be a showman. I’ve been makg televisn for so long, and I’m an actor, but a pch is my worst nightmare. It’s very embarrassg.</p><p class="paywall">That’s what’s so tertg about “Search Party”—we got to make five seasons slightly unr the radar. Now ’s gettg harr, bee I thk a lot of the works are basg cisns on algorhms. I swear to God, I ma this joke: people jt want dogs and robots. Then we were drivg L.A., and I saw a billboard for a Tom Hanks movie. And was lerally Tom Hanks, a dog, and a robot.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>What is the show you’re pchg?</strong></p><p class="paywall">It’s about my fay. My father is Middle Eastern, and he owns a strip club Palm Sprgs. So that’s the show. Knock on wood, we’ll be pchg pretty soon.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>He’s Iraqi, rrect? Did the recent hubbub around the twentieth anniversary of 9/11 rurface anythg tertg om that time your life?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-4 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">It’s so funny. I was talkg about this last night. My iend Natasha Lyonne was, like, “9/11, huh?” I was, like, “Why are we talkg about this?” And we all went to our 9/11 stori. I was eleven at the time, and obvly was very tense. I thk is funny that ’s jt a big “Oops!” to Iraq. Ameri was able to generate this fear and get everybody on board wh attackg and stroyg a untry that had absolutely nothg to do wh this terrorist attack. Now everybody is, like, “Oh, yeah . . . that’s weird.” Jon Stewart is the only one who’s, like, “What the fuck?” No one even r. It’s so sad.</p><p class="paywall">But yeah, my father was terrogated a lot. And my father lov Ameri so much! When all the Tmp stuff was happeng, was sad how the Amerin flag was reappropriated. You’d see a flag, and would be kd of sry. And my father would be, like, “That’s OUR flag! Don’t you ever nfe that wh somethg that’s not patrtic.”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Your Instagram is very lo-fi and very much not self-promotnal. You mostly jt post pictur of whatever patg you’re workg on. I have to image that your agents and managers are thkg you should change up a b.</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk they’re fely thkg that. I lete all the time. I’d rather jt not be on at all. But now “Search Party” and this movie are g out, and I should jt do a ltle ph and try to advertise myself. But I lerally have this fear that I’ll prs the wrong button and post a nu selfie, which I don’t even take. I have lots of iends who are actors who really e to their benef. They’re really dog a lot. I ed to judge , but now I don’t. It’s part of work.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>But then there is a certa éle layer of Hollywood that don’t even need to e social media. Someone like Jennifer Lawrence has the luxury of never needg to sell herself onle.</strong></p><p class="paywall">Tst me, I thk about that a lot. And I do have the moments where I’m, like, “If I were more active on social media, would lerally help my reer and make more people see the show?” But I jt don’t have a bra for that. And I’m always tryg to figure out my relatnship to : Jt bee I’m an actor, do that mean I’m pletely polilly awakened? Yeah, abortn rights are beg challenged right now, which is the most upsettg thg ever. I’m readg about and stayg up to date, but I don’t necsarily want to share my story. Would help? I don’t know.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>Jeff Goldblum is your -star this season. Was he already a fan of the show, or did he have to be pched on ?</strong></p><p class="paywall">That character is such a loud, big character. We need a big name to really pull off. Every year, there are such well-wrten gut-star rol. We always try to get a big name or an tertg actor, and we’ve always been so succsful at . Goldblum hadn’t seen the show before, but they sent him the first uple of seasons. He watched , and he rpond to really well.</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-5 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>What’s he like?</strong></p><p class="paywall">He’s as Jeff Goldblum-y as gets. There is no one else like him. There’s so much dialogue wh that role, and sometim ’s hard for olr actors to have that much dialogue every day. It’s hard for anyone. But he was so off-book and mil and loose. He me drsed, always. He’s que an sence—he was like a very cur child. He was, like, [dog a Jeff Goldbum voice] “Oh, my God, ’s youuuu. And you’re amaaazg.”</p><p class="paywall"><strong>He looks unbelievably good.</strong></p><p class="paywall">I thk <em>he</em> has a fuckg route. He don’t have sugar, ffee. Whereas I was <em>expandg</em> as the season went on. He has a betiful wife who’s a dancer. He’s very shape and tune; his body is his stment. He looks better now than he did before, some ways.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’ve worked wh a lot of A-list Hollywood heavy hters: Nile Kidman, Osr Isaac, Javier Barm, Jeff Goldblum. Do you notice anythg different about the way they work?</strong></p><p class="paywall">They’re not on their cell phon. That’s hontly the biggt thg. I try not to brg my cell phone, bee ’s very distractg. But actors of a certa ilk, who have more rponsibily, they’re more like athlet. They’re very focsed and primed and physilly charged. They’re nservg their energy to release on mera.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="sxa67m"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall"><strong>You went viral 2020 when you were spotted hangg out wh Brad Pt, and tabloids spread the mor that you guys were datg. Is there still noff om that moment? People still followg you around, hopg to get close to Brad Pt?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Thank God, no. It me hot and left as fast as me . It happened durg <em class="small">COVID</em>, and I was alone wh . It was so weird. Now ’s like a weird dream, where I’m, like, Did that happen?</p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-6 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall"><strong>Was he amed by ?</strong></p><p class="paywall">He had no awarens of at all. Which is so funny. Bee he don’t read that sh. I was, like, “You know everyone thks we’re datg? And there’s this whole thg, and I’m beg followed.” And he was, like, “I’m sorry. It happens. If you hang out wh me, happens.” He had no awarens of at all.</p><p class="paywall">But the other day I was at my grandmother’s hoe, my father’s mother. She’s been this untry for over thirty years and still barely speaks English. An Iraqi Mlim woman. She’s stg there, watchg her Turkish soap opera. And next to her is this old gossip magaze wh Brad’s face, and my face a small circle. And says “Brad’s New Girl!” And then on the si ’s old Instagram photos of me and iends at dner. It was, like, “ALL ABOUT ALIA.” This whole ma-up story about how we were healg each other by spendg time together. All this crazy sh. I looked at my grandmother, like, “Why do you have this?” She’s, like, “It’s you and this movie star! And ’s your face.” I was embarrassed by . I told her she had to throw away. And she lghed.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>At the time, were you not entertaed by at all?</strong></p><p class="paywall">At the time, was not fun at all. I’m not an actor who has ever alt wh the paparazzi. They don’t know who the fuck I am. There’s somethg ironic about . It has nothg to do wh Brad as a person—he’s a great fuckg guy. But of urse the ia of me beg romantilly volved wh an olr whe guy is what gets me the most attentn. Not a twenty-year reer. That’s what gets me. And ’s ironic and gross and stupid. But yeah, aga, was super brief. And I was fe. I was shaken up by , bee I have a stud Highland Park where I go every day. And I was, like, There are the photos of me rryg way too much sh to get si. There are all the embarrassg photos, they had followed me there. Then they jt disappeared, and now they don’t give a sh.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You got your start playg Maeby on “Arrted Development,” and you’ve spoken about how that role boxed you for a long time—people always wanted you to play a pissy teen-ager. The days, which character f your reer: Maeby or Dory?</strong></p><p class="paywall">For so long my life, even when I wasn’t workg for a while, was Maeby. That’s . I n qu actg, and I’ll always be Maeby. And kd of hnted me. I was bter. It has shifted to more of an over-all awarens of my work general, which is always rehg as an actor. I’m no longer jt known for this one thg that I did when I was fifteen years old. I’m jt another actrs.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>When you were playg Maeby, did you unrstand the humor of “Arrted Development”?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-7 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">To a gree. When we’d do the table read, sometim me and Michael [Cera] would get lghs, and we didn’t necsarily know why. The ct jok, we unrstood, but sometim certa sexual nuendos went over my head.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>“Arrted Development” me back 2018, a few months after your -star Jefey Tambor was acced of sexual harrassment. There was a roundtable terview wh the st that beme ntroversial, and you were one of the few people willg to speak out agast Tambor. Did that cloud the entire experience of “Arrted Development”?</strong></p><p class="paywall">Not the whole experience. It was really only the prs of the last season that was the bummer. We all got ught this wave, and we were unprepared. I did my bt to munite, but jt got really msy.</p><p class="paywall">But so much of was amazg. Michael Cera is still one of my bt iends. At the time, nobody knew of the show. And beme this thg after we had wrapped. It was a rare experience that not a lot of actors go through, where you make somethg that you feel like nobody is watchg, and years after you do you start gettg regnized for on a crazy sle. The other day, Washgton Square Park, there was this young kid playg chs, about seventeen. He was, like, “Are you Maeby? I love that show.” That show has locked to a certa young llege stunt. They’re, like, “Here’s your dorm-room key, and here’s the box set of ‘Arrted Development.’ ”</p><p class="paywall">Those first three seasons, I thk, are perfect. It’s geni and hilar. The world has changed a lot. The wrg of the show still holds up, bee ’s not apologetic. It’s offensive, and funny, and sultg, and gross, and all the thgs that people shy away om now. Bee everyone is tryg to make stuff that’s important. But art is supposed to be offensive, slightly, pecially wh humor.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="95mirh"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan full-bleed-ad row-mid-ntent-ad"><div class="StickyMidContentAdWrapper-fSBzwl drzyIa ad-stickymidntent"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--mid-ntent should-hold-space"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--mid-ntent" data-no-id="oxtoe9"></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ArticlePageChunksGrid-hfxa bjczjj grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="BodyWrapper-kufPGa bDyAMU body body__ntaer article__body" data-journey-hook="client-ntent" data-ttid="BodyWrapper"><div class="body__ner-ntaer"><p class="paywall"><strong>This is the fal season of “Search Party,” but ntent never really di anymore. There’s always potential for a reboot. Do you feel that, when you’re workg on a project now?</strong></p><p class="paywall">That is kd of the thg now. Everybody wants to remisce, so ’s always, like, Remember your favore show? Let’s brg back! “Fuller Hoe.” But nobody needs that. But I gus some people did, bee was a huge h. I’m a ltle more, like, “I want to move on.” As much as I love “Search Party,” I’m ready to move on. I don’t really want to go back to dog old characters. It’s not worth .</p><p class="paywall"><strong>You’ve mentned that you were always typest as a moody teen-ager or an ethnic sikick. Do you notice any patterns the rol that are brought to you now?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-8 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">I gotta say, rehgly ls. It’s not a type, necsarily. But there’s fely still: a queer Arab; a different, quirky girl. Sure, I gus I check those box.</p><p class="paywall">It’s funny. When I was younger, whatever ethnicy the role was I uld play . I had curly hair and eckl. And people were, like,“Yeah, you uld be Rsian!” I was, like, “Yeah, sure.” But that whole nversatn has shifted so much. Nobody ed to re about me beg half Iraqi. If anythg, was somethg I ed to ver up. You’re tryg to f . But ’s swung the other way, for optics. I feel like the dtry is, like, “We are all about beg equal!” Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure. O.K. It’s funny how the dtry pats self on the back before ’s even done anythg.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>How much do you ncern yourself wh beg an artist and dog a very specific thg, vers beg a workg actor and gettg jobs?</strong></p><p class="paywall">I fluctuate between those two ias a lot. Somethg about beg an actor is really embarrassg to me. And yet I’m also still really proud to be an actor, and I admire actors. But ’s a battle. There are some moments when I feel like I’m makg art, and the work is nnected to some unnsc msage I’m tryg to relay about thgs I thk are important. Wh “Beg the Rirdos” and “Search Party,” I’m really proud to share those stori. Is that always gog to be the se? No.</p><p class="paywall">Wh the streamg servic and ntent beg the way is now, feels like the stud system aga. There are only five slots, and you’ve got to get a al wh one of them. I wonr if that’s gog to llapse, where actors bee how jokers were Shakpearean tim: actors were the lowt-level job. It’s hard to image that now, bee actors are so overpaid. They’re looked at as royalty, celebri. I wonr how many people would still be actors if there wasn’t fame and money attached to , if was jt a job.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>And yet the ia of the “movie star” is beg obsolete.</strong></p><p class="paywall">There are too many punctur . An dividual actor n’t get as powerful anymore. That’s what’s so funny about beg an actor: your whole life, people jt regnize you, and they only see the character that you played. But good actors are people who love people. And that’s hard when you bee really regnizable, bee you get further and further away om people. People are lookg at you like you’re a ge, and you isolate yourself and start only hangg out wh other actors. And then all of a sudn your life experience gets really small, which is really hard for work. If you don’t have life experience and you’re jt hangg out at fancy hotels wh famo actors all the time, ’s hard to feel like you’re an artist anymore. What am I actually referencg? Jt Hollywood parti? That sucks. Life is everywhere. To lm yourself down enough to notice what’s around you and tune is a really good place to be.</p><p class="paywall"><strong>What do patg fulfill for you?</strong></p><div data-attr-viewport-monor="le-recirc" class="le-recirc-wrapper le-recirc-observer-target-9 viewport-monor-anchor"></div><p class="paywall">A lot. It’s the oppose of actg, bee ’s very ternal. Tryg to draw an image, and tryg to solve —’s very satisfyg. It’s like wrg, where you have to go every day. You might not even pat every day. Sometim I’ll jt s there and doodle and smoke cigarett, but eventually somethg happens. I love . I’m so grateful for . In between jobs, you feel a ltle b vulnerable, and tired. It’s so fun to wake up, make myself ffee, get drsed, and go to work all day. And to practice gettg fortable beg alone aga, lettg go of whatever I jt did, and jt stg wh my thoughts.</p></div></div></div><div class="GridItem-buujkM fVLMby grid--em grid-layout__asi"><div class="StickyBoxWrapper-jfYB jxBcTH sticky-box"><div class="StickyBoxPrimary-dzWDWL cdhYoN sticky-box__primary"><div class="AdWrapper-dQtivb fZrssQ ad ad--rail"><div class="ad__slot ad__slot--rail" data-no-id="y3qvad"></div></div><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--display-rail" role="prentatn" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--display-rail"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></div><div class="StickyBoxPlaceholr-grPmrg dxAvXx"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 PaywallInleBarrierWhWrapperGrid-fyrGfS kLQIUk grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="body body__le-barrier article__body"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"><asi class="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper-iBnuqk lfXXa-D" data-ttid="PaywallInleBarrierWrapper"><div class="ConsumerMarketgUnThemedWrapper-iUTMTf jssHut nsumer-marketg-un nsumer-marketg-un--paywall-le-barrier" role="prentatn" aria-live="pole" aria-hidn="te"><div class="nsumer-marketg-un__slot nsumer-marketg-un__slot--paywall-le-barrier"></div><div class="journey-un"></div></div></asi></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 ContentWrapperGrid-fvkmBv brYtrA grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="body body__ntaer"><div class="ntaer ntaer--body"><div class="ntaer--body-ner"></div></div></div></div></div></div></article><div class="ContentFooterWrapper-jVNdRG dTJkpP ArticlePageContentFooterGrid-ccsXYy eMZRHU article-body__footer"><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="LkStackWrapper-NFLYw kgtXXB lkstack" data-ttid="LkStack"><div class="SectnTleRoot-dBGvdq kjAxEG LkStackHear-lKjbE hejl lk-stack--headg" data-ttid="SectnTle"><h2 class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SectnTleHed-dKqZet dxqEAa dqtvfu jttyjJ">More New Yorker Conversatns</h2></div><div class="LkStackContent-jyKicS gPhyME"><ul class="LkStackList-gGcjdZ dnMwpz"><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Eva Longoria brgs <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/eva-longoria-brgs-lato-life-to-the-screen" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">Lato life to the screen</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p><a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/harvey-karp-knows-how-to-make-babi-happy" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">Harvey Karp</a> knows how to make babi happy.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Tx explas why <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/tx-explas-why-were-datg-all-wrong" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">we’re datg all wrong</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Ken Jenngs has some <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/ken-jenngs-has-some-qutns-about-ath" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">qutns about ath</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Llie Marmon Silko <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/llie-marmon-silko-saw--g" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">saw g</a>.</p></div></li><li class="LkStackBullet-kQRqul iQHwiG lk-stack--lk-em" data-ttid="LkStackBullet"><div><p>Tom Hanks on the rewards and <a href="/culture/the-new-yorker-terview/tom-hanks-on-the-rewards-and-vic-realy-of-makg-movi" class="InternalLkEmbedWrapper-fhjgJW cQLtaa">“vic realy” of makg movi</a>.</p></div></li></ul><div class="LkStackFooter-KfRyO ebnmps lk-stack--footer"><div><p><a href=">Sign up</a> for our daily newsletter to receive the bt stori om <em>The New Yorker</em>.</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div class="ContributorsWrapper-eNpWFu GWFsc ntributors" data-ttid="Contributors"><div class="ContributorBWrapper-bnVHbt gMon"><div class="ContributorBAvatar-bIGTqf eMWbvj"><a href="/ntributors/rrie-battan"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW jvZaPI rponsive-asset"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa rponsive-image"><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></picture></span></a></div><div class="ContributorBContent-ubQdr jZTSSi"><div class="ContributorBHear-ledood XOIEx"></div><div class="ContributorBB-fBolsO giFhKz"><a href="/ntributors/rrie-battan">Carrie Battan</a> began ntributg to The New Yorker 2015 and beme a staff wrer 2018.</div><div class="ContributorBFooter-brqDlv ezUmSv"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="RowWrapper-UmqTg HEhan"><div class="GridWrapper-cAzTTK kHBDeH grid grid-margs grid-ems-2 grid-layout--adrail narrow wi-adrail"><div class="GridItem-buujkM stRKV grid--em grid-layout__ntent"><div data-ttid="TagCloudWrapper" class="TagCloudWrapper-gGgndx ctyZyK ContentFooterTagCloud-krQmRG ZLGh"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ TagCloudSectnHear-cOforY iUEiRd bPyAoD kQQRmu">More:</span><a href="/tag/terview" class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd 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SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Our Columnists</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">Vivek Ramaswamy Is Not the Next Tmp</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-1" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="Vivek Ramaswamy Is Not the Next Tmp" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">Many the prs have clared the entreprenr and polil novice “Tmp’s heir.” The parison sells the former Print short.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Jay Caspian Kang</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff hlYhBH summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm fvDIAb" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl ldWYvC summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Daily Comment</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-2" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="A Chaotic Display of Conservatism at the First Republin Debate" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">Donald Tmp was absent, but the fissur he has opened the G.O.P. took center stage.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Benjam Wallace-Wells</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff hlYhBH summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm fvDIAb" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl ldWYvC summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">The Front Row</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-3" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="What to Stream: Lt, Ctn, and Ira Sachs’s “The Delta”" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">The first feature film by the director of “Passag” shows the perils that arise when gay liv mt be lived secrecy.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Richard Brody</span></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="SummaryItemWrapper-iwvBff hlYhBH summary-em summary-em--ARTICLE summary-em--no-in summary-em--text-align-left summary-em--layout-placement-text-below-sktop-only summary-em--layout-posn-image-right summary-em--layout-proportns-33-66 summary-em--si-by-si-align-center summary-em--si-by-si-image-right-mobile-false summary-em--standard SummaryCollectnGridSummaryItem-WColm fvDIAb" role="button" tabx="0"><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="How the Authors of the Bible Spun Triumph om Defeat" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="SummaryItemContent-eiDYMl ldWYvC summary-em__ntent"><div class="RubricWrapper-dKmCNX kImuKS bric bric--disvery SummaryItemRubric-dguGKN fYiFyD summary-em__bric"><span class="RubricName-fVtemz cLxcNi">Books</span></div><a class="SummaryItemHedLk-civM cZPaWG summary-em-trackg__hed-lk summary-em__hed-lk" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-hed-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" href=" target="_self"><div class="SummaryItemHedBase-hiFYpQ iIjKeM summary-em__hed" data-ttid="SummaryItemHed">How the Authors of the Bible Spun Triumph om Defeat</div></a><div class="SummaryItemAssetContaer-gwhFFH VOyg summary-em__asset-ntaer"><a class="SummaryItemImageLk-dshqxb USLvL summary-em__image-lk summary-em-trackg__image-lk" href=" aria-hidn="te" tabx="-1" data-ponent-type="recirc-river" data-recirc-id="em-image-4" data-recirc-pattern="summary-em" target="_self"><span class="SpanWrapper-umhxW kGxnNB rponsive-asset SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image"><div data-tt="aspect-rat-ntaer" class="AspectRatContaer-bJHpJz jMoLpX"><div class="aspect-rat--overlay-ntaer"><picture class="RponsiveImagePicture-cWuUZO dUOtEa SummaryItemRponsiveAsset-hjGIGg egpoQR summary-em__image rponsive-image"><noscript><source media="(max-width: 767px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w, 640w" siz="100vw"/><source media="(m-width: 768px)" srcSet=" 120w, 240w, 320w" siz="100vw"/><img alt="How the Authors of the Bible Spun Triumph om Defeat" class="RponsiveImageContaer-eybHBd fptoWY rponsive-image__image" src="></noscript></picture></div></div></span></a></div><div class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ SummaryItemDek-CRfsi iUEiRd jxOIpm cPtisA summary-em__k">History may be wrten by the victors, but the world’s most fluential text om antiquy’s biggt losers.</div><div class="SummaryItemByleWrapper-boCfbi hYsZi summary-em__byle-date-in"><div class="SummaryItemBaseByle-fFbXkY cgDBtc summary-em__byle"><div class="summary-em__byle__ntent"><div data-ttid="BylWrapper" class="BylWrapper-KIudk irTIfE byl"><p class="ByleWrapper-jWHrLH dSEWiO byle byl__byle" data-ttid="ByleWrapper" emProp="thor" emType="><span emProp="name" class="ByleNamWrapper-jbHncj fuDQVo"><span data-ttid="ByleName" class="ByleName-kwmrLn cYaBaU byle__name"><span class="BaseWrap-sc-gjQpdd BaseText-ewhhUZ BylePreamble-iJolpQ iUEiRd jslZfG gnILss byle__preamble">By </span>Adam 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