Queer Scholar Abbie Goldberg Once Hid Her Mom's LGBT Books</tle><meta name="tle" ntent="Queer Scholar Abbie Goldberg Once Hid Her Mom's LGBT Books" /><meta name="scriptn" ntent="LGBTQ+ fay scholar Abbie Goldberg, PhD, walks through her evolutn and the societal impact she hop her rearch will have. " /><meta name="keywords" ntent="abbie goldberg, lgbt fay scholar, gay dads, lbian moms" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="webse" /><meta name="theme-lor" ntent="#000000" /><lk href="/_assets/sign-tokens/oprahdaily/static/imag/" rel="in" /><meta property="og:se_name" ntent="Oprah Daily" /><meta name="fb:app_id" ntent="557569598006399" property="fb:app_id" /><meta name="article:publisher" ntent=" property="article:publisher" /><meta name="twter:se" ntent="@OprahDaily" /><meta name="google-se-verifitn" ntent="82jYkYSOEZ5GE7V8m8gSrd7kxTtY-J37c6dvl60N8" /><meta property="og:tle" ntent="A Pneerg LGBTQ+ Scholar Once Hid Her Mom’s Queer Books" /><meta property="og:scriptn" ntent="LGBTQ+ fay scholar Abbie Goldberg, PhD, walks through her evolutn and the societal impact she hop her rearch will have. " /><meta name="robots" ntent="max-image-preview:large,max-snippet:-1,max-vio-preview:30" /><lk rel="apple-touch-in" href="/_assets/sign-tokens/oprahdaily/static/imag/" /><meta property="og:image" ntent="" /><meta property="og:image:width" ntent="1200" /><meta property="og:image:height" ntent="600" /><meta name="thumbnail" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent=" /><meta name="twter:image" ntent="" /><meta ntent=" property="og:url" /><meta name="to-publish" ntent="timely" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="article" /><meta name="twter:rd" ntent="summary_large_image" /><meta name="article:opn" property="article:opn" /><meta ntent="Relatnships" property="article:sectn" /><meta ntent="2022-07-01T12:55:41Z" property="article:modified_time" /><meta ntent="2022-06-28T14:35:00Z" property="article:published_time" /><meta name="sailth.excerpt" ntent="Durg Abbie Goldberg's preteen years, her mother divorced and then met and fell love wh a woman. But the stat of her mother's new romantic relatnship was unclear. “We lled her ‘godmother’ or ‘my mom's bt iend,’” says Goldberg of herself and her two siblgs, a younger and an" /><meta name="" ntent="life,Liftyle,relatnships-love,Relatnships" /><meta name="" ntent="2022-06-28 14:35:00" /><meta name="sailth.socialtle" ntent="A Pneerg LGBTQ+ Scholar Once Hid Her Mom’s Queer Books" /><meta name="ntenttype" ntent="standard-article" /><meta id="m1" name="m1" emProp="cssSelector " ntent=".ntent-hed" /><meta id="m2" name="m2" emProp="cssSelector" ntent=".ntent-k p" /><lk href="/" emSpe emType=" emRef="m1 m2" /><lk rel="preload" as="image" image-src-set=" 640w, 980w, 1120w, 1200w, 1920w" image-siz="100vw" /><meta name="next-head-unt" ntent="45" /><meta name="next-font-prennect" /><script id="vice-tect" data-nscript="beforeInteractive">(()=>{nst o="ontouchstart" wdow||!!navigator.maxTouchPots||("__touch"),t=wdow.matchMedia("only screen and (max-width: 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Now this pneerg rearcher is helpg make schools—and society—more welg and equal for all kds of fai. </p></div><style data-emotn="css 1t9ufoh">{display:block;font-fay:Gilroy,Helveti,Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:0.8125rem;le-height:1.2;marg:0.625rem 0 0.3125rem;marg-bottom:0.625rem;paddg-right:0.3125rem;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{marg-top:1.35rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{marg-top:1.75rem;}} addrs{marg:0rem;} span{le-height:1.6;display:le-block;marg:0rem;}</style><div class="css-1t9ufoh exadjwu7"><style data-emotn="css b9totx">{font-style:normal;paddg-right:0.3125rem;font-fay:Gilroy,Helveti,Arial,Sans-serif;display:block;font-size:0.8125rem;le-height:1.2;marg:0.625rem 0 0.3125rem;}</style><addrs class="css-b9totx ehvvd9m2"><style data-emotn="css 1gwutwq">{paddg-right:0.3125rem;font-fay:Gilroy,Helveti,Arial,Sans-serif;display:block;font-size:0.8125rem;le-height:1.2;marg:0.625rem 0 0.3125rem;}</style><span class="css-1gwutwq ehvvd9m1">By <style data-emotn="css 7l5upj">{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href="/thor/233836/stephanie-fairygton/" class="css-7l5upj e1c1bym14">Stephanie Fairygton</a></span><style data-emotn="css 1gryrf1">{display:le-block;text-transform:unset;marg-left:0.625rem;}</style><time class="css-1gryrf1 exadjwu6">Published: Jun 28, 2022</time></addrs></div><style data-emotn="css wkpw2c">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;}</style><div class="no-prt css-wkpw2c exadjwu15"><style data-emotn="css 1hpjtwr">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;posn:relative;marg-top:0.9375rem;}</style><div class="ntent-hear-actns css-1hpjtwr exadjwu14"><style data-emotn="css 1x55pmg">{background-lor:#E61957;lor:#ffffff;borr:th solid transparent;display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:row;-ms-flex-directn:row;flex-directn:row;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;paddg:0.625rem 1.25rem;marg-top:0rem;marg-bottom:0rem;-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-transform:upperse;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;font-fay:Gilroy,Helveti,Arial,Sans-serif;width:to;borr-radi:50rem;font-size:0.8125rem;le-height:1.2;font-weight:bold;letter-spacg:0.05em;}{background-lor:#9D002F;lor:#ffffff;cursor:poter;borr:th solid transparent;}{marg-left:1rem;}{outle:0.125rem dotted #000000;outle-offset:0.2rem;}</style><button data-tooltip-id="article-hear-save" class="ntentSaveButton css-1x55pmg e12nq69g1"><style data-emotn="css 7g4d0s">{width:1rem;height:1rem;marg-right:0.625rem;} path{fill:#ffffff;} path{fill:#ffffff;}</style><svg xmlns=" fill="none" viewBox="0 0 48 62" class="css-7g4d0s e10k4xbi2"><path fill="#000" fill-le="evenodd" d="M24 46.52 48 61V0H0v61.44l24-14.92ZM5.67 50.9 24 39.5l18.33 11.4V5.7H5.67v45.2Z" clip-le="evenodd"></path></svg>Save Article</button><style data-emotn="css 3s1l0y">{width:160px;text-align:left;lor:#595959;font-fay:Gilroy,Helveti,Arial,Sans-serif;font-size:0.70284rem;le-height:1.1;letter-spacg:0.045rem;}</style></div></div></div></div></hear><style data-emotn="css k008qs">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;}</style><div class="css-k008qs ewisyje0"><style data-emotn="css 7ce51e">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;posn:relative;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{max-width:lc(100vw - 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But the stat of her mother's new romantic relatnship was unclear. “We lled her ‘godmother’ or ‘my mom's bt iend,’” says Goldberg of herself and her two siblgs, a younger and an olr brother. "My mother wasn't sayg . She wasn't namg . And to be hont, I don't know that I wanted her to. We had a shared unrstandg that there wasn't really a place for this our suburb ’80s New York," she rells, potg out the nformist thst of that era amid Reagan's ultra-nservative princy.</p><p data-no-id="1" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">As a teen, she would sn her mother's bookshelv for tl wh lbian referenc and flip their sp so her iends wouldn't see them. By then she says was ls about shame-fed secrecy than a missg set of mon cultural terms through which to accurately articulate their kd of fay. "There was no vobulary. There was no ntext," she says. <br /></p><p data-no-id="2" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Today, Goldberg has not only wrten books—<em><style data-emotn="css 9cezh6">{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:#E61957;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;}{lor:#595959;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Lbian and Gay Parents and Their Children" data-vars-ga-product-id="ada93d87-ecee-434c-8ef7-2bbe8e55363f" data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="(not set) | (not set)" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"31518d15-56f8-4a3f-8799-8066452d82","se_id":"10a25939-3448-4c42-8343-9bfdfc32076b","metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","metadata":{}}}" data-vars-ga-product-price="$67.25" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="74cd8f-df14-4ff4-8bed-217af20e371d" class="body-lk product-lks css-9cezh6 ebsw2pb0">Lbian and Gay Parents and Their Children</a>,</em> <em><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Gay Dads" data-vars-ga-product-id="cb574789-1b07-4536-b9ed-2b50a802171f" data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="sale | (not set)" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"31518d15-56f8-4a3f-8799-8066452d82","se_id":"10a25939-3448-4c42-8343-9bfdfc32076b","metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","metadata":{}}}" data-vars-ga-product-brand="NYU Prs" data-vars-ga-product-price="$21.64" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="c0f5ced4-8a47-4b2a-ab46-3a371757a3fb" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="NYU Prs" class="body-lk product-lks css-9cezh6 ebsw2pb0">Gay Dads</a></em>, <em><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="Open Adoptn and Diverse Fai" data-vars-ga-product-id="4f600761-95bc-48c4-b770-59e3a5a57256" data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="sale | (not set)" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"31518d15-56f8-4a3f-8799-8066452d82","se_id":"10a25939-3448-4c42-8343-9bfdfc32076b","metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","metadata":{}}}" data-vars-ga-product-brand="Oxford Universy Prs" data-vars-ga-product-price="$35.63" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="24b66d48-07ea-451e-be8d-f73c124d0ebd" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="Oxford Universy Prs" class="body-lk product-lks css-9cezh6 ebsw2pb0">Open Adoptn and Diverse Fai</a></em> and <em><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="LGBTQ Fay Buildg" data-vars-ga-product-id="d8f51e95-4854-4b32-b7be-5eb7135946" data-vars-ga-lk-treatment="(not set) | (not set)" data-href=" data-product-url=" data-affiliate="te" data-affiliate-url=" data-affiliate-work="{"id":"31518d15-56f8-4a3f-8799-8066452d82","se_id":"10a25939-3448-4c42-8343-9bfdfc32076b","metadata":{},"work":{"id":"469ce69f-4798-416d-9432-eaa9954b4053","name":"Amazon","metadata":{}}}" data-vars-ga-product-brand="Amerin Psychologil Associatn" data-vars-ga-product-price="$2.96" data-vars-ga-product-retailer-id="0766ac76-a553-4cc7-8047-a7356beedb" data-vars-ga-product-sem3-brand="Amerin Psychologil Associatn" class="body-lk product-lks css-9cezh6 ebsw2pb0">LGBTQ Fay Buildg</a></em>—that would make her younger self balk, as a pneerg LGBTQ+ fay studi scholar Clark Universy's partment of psychology, she's dited her entire reer to rearchg and raisg awarens about the ner workgs of LGBTQ+ fay dynamics and their experienc the world.<br /></p><div data-no-id="3" data-teractive="WatchNext-1" class="journey-unblur-ntent css-0 e10xr3vp6"><style data-emotn="css 1ujafpv">{clear:both;marg-bottom:0.9375rem;paddg:0rem;posn:relative;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{width:100%;}}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{paddg:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{width:25rem;float:left;marg-right:1.25rem;}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem){{marg-left:0;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{marg-left:max(512px - 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the daily life of gay parents

Over the past few s the number of children growg up LGBTQ-parent fai has creased dramatilly wh the ntext of shiftg socpolil and legal climat around the world, more favourable attus toward diverse fay forms, and expand accs to assisted reproductn technology and adoptn (Goldberg & Conron, 2018). Among diverse LGBTQ-parent fay forms, lbian and gay stepfay arrangements formed post heterosexual relatnship (PHR) dissolutn likely reprent the most mon formatn (Tasker & Lavenr-Stott, 2020). Contrary to prevailg expectatns, early studi wh mothers who me out as lbians showed that they were jt as likely to have good mental health and posive relatnships wh their children as were heterosexual mothers, and that their children were no more likely to show emotnal and behavral difficulti, poor performance at school, or atypil genr role behavr than were children wh heterosexual parents (Patterson, 2017; Tasker, 2010) wh rearch on lbian stepfay arrangements, what we currently know about parentg and the adjtment of children whose parents are a sexual and/or a genr mory is still maly limed to lbian-parent fai through donor sematn (Bos & Gartrell, 2020). Planned lbian-parent fai were also created by adoptn (Farr et al., 2020), by sexual terurse wh a man who would not be a father to the child and by elective -parentg, whereby the mo...

Contents:

KEN HAS ALWAYS BEEN BARBIE’S GAY BT FRIEND—NOT HER BOYIENDBARBIE’S BELOVED BEARD?FOR YEARS, PEOPLE HAVE QUTNED WHAT ROLE KEN REALLY PLAYS BARBIE’S LIFE. BUT THE TTH IS PLA SIGHT: KEN’S NOT BOYIEND MATERIAL. AT LEAST, NOT FOR BARBIE.BARRY LEVTFREELANCE WRERPUBLISHED JUL. 21, 2023 4:35AM EDT PHOTO ILLTRATN BY THE DAILY BEAST/GETTYIT’S BARBIE WEEK AT THE DAILY BEAST’S OBSSED, CELEBRATG THE DOLL’S POP-CULTURE HISTORY, OUR FAVORE BARBIE MEMORI, AND A CERTA MAJOR MOVIE. READ ALL OF OUR VERAGE HERE!“SHE’S EVERYTHG. HE’S JT KEN.” THAT’S THE TAGLE FOR THE WILDLY ANTICIPATED BARBIE MOVIE, DIRECTED BY GRETA GERWIG AND STARRG MARGOT ROBBIE AND RYAN GOSLG. THE IMPLITN IS CLEAR: COME FOR BARBIE, AND STAY FOR BARBIE… BUT KEN HAPPENS TO BE THERE TOO.KEN HAS LONG BEEN SEEN AS NOTHG BUT BARBIE’S HUMAN ACCSORY, BUT WASN’T ALWAYS THIS WAY FOR THE POOR MISUNRSTOOD DOLL. WHEN KEN WAS FIRST TRODUCED 1961, HIS FIRST MERCIAL TRIED TO POSN HIM AS BARBIE’S EQUAL AND, UNMISTAKABLY, BOYIEND. “GET BOTH BARBIE AND KEN AND SEE WHERE THE ROMANCE WILL LEAD!” THE MERCIAL PROMISED.SCE THEN, LIKE BARBIE, KEN HAS UNRGONE UNTLS TRANSFORMATNS AND FASHNS. BUT AS TIME WENT ON, KEN FOUND HIMSELF AN AFTERTHOUGHT. TOYMAKERS MATTEL NEVER GAVE HIM THE SAME KD OF BACKSTORI AS BARBIE—WHILE SHE’S HAD OVER 200 REERS, KEN HAS HAD JT SOME 40-ODD PROFSNS. (AN CREDIBLE AMOUNT OF JOBS FOR A PERSON, SURE. BUT FOR A DOLL? EMBARRASSG.) BARBIE HAS STARRED LOTS OF VIO GAM AND MORE THAN THREE DOZEN FILMS; KEN HAS HAD A MAJOR ROLE A MERE HANDFUL OF THEM. BUT THERE’S ONE KEY REASON WHY KEN IS ALWAYS LAGGG SIGNIFINTLY BEHD BARBIE AND 'S A LOT EPER THAN THE DOLL’S SEEMG LACK OF POPULARY: KEN HAS BEEN MISST. HE’S NOT BARBIE’S BOYIEND. HE’S BARBIE’S GAY BT IEND.DPE MATTEL’S SISTENCE THAT BARBIE AND KEN ARE A HAPPY ROMANTIC RELATNSHIP, THERE’S PLENTY OF SPECULATN ABOUT KEN’S SEXUALY. EVEN IF HIS MAKERS CLAIM HIM TO BE STRAIGHT, THERE’S MOUNTG PROOF TO THE NTRARY. PERHAPS THE MOST DISPUTABLE EVINCE THAT KEN IS FACT BOTH A MEMBER OF THE QUEER MUNY AND BARBIE’S BTIE, NOT BOY TOY, OM A RATHER SURPRISG PLACE: 2010’S TOY STORY 3.IN TOY STORY 3, BARBIE AND KEN PLAY A SURPRISGLY LARGE ROLE. THEIR TRODUCTN TO THE FILM IS TGED WH ROMANTIC TENSN. WHEN THE PAIR MEET, THE FILM VOK A MON TROPE: A ROMANTIC NEEDLE DROP HS THE MOMENT THE LOVERS LOCK EY. IN THIS SE, ’S “DREAM WEAVER” BY GARY WRIGHT. AS FAR AS BARBIE AND KEN ARE NCERNED, THEY’RE THE ONLY ON THE ROOM. “I LOVE YOUR LEG WARMERS!” KEN TELLS BARBIE. “NICE AST,” SHE BANTERS, WH HEAVY EMPHASIS ON THE FIRST SYLLABLE. BEFORE THGS GET TOO HEATED, THEY LOCK ARMS AND WALK OFF TOGETHER. PHOTO ILLTRATN BY KELLY CAMERO / THE DAILY BEAST / GETTY LET’S BE HONT—SPE THE ROMANTIC OVERTON OF THE SCENE, THEIR BRIEF EXCHANGE TELLS EVERYTHG ABOUT HOW THEY SEE EACH OTHER. KEN DON’T MENTN ANYTHG ABOUT BARBIE’S BODY, STEAD HIGHLIGHTG HER LEG WARMERS. BUT BARBIE IS UNSUBTLY TRYG TO SCE KEN JT TWO WORDS. SHE’S AFTER KEN, BUT KEN IS AFTER SOMEONE WHOSE CLOTH HE N ADMIRE.SURE, LATER THE FILM, KEN AND BARBIE SAY “I LOVE YOU” TO EACH OTHER. AND THEY GO BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN SAYG EACH WORD OF “I LOVE YOU”—SO SOMEONE DIFFERENT N SAY “LOVE” EACH TIME, AS KEN EXPLAS. HE MENTNS OFFHAND THAT HE HAS EVERYTHG EXCEPT SOMEONE TO SHARE WH. BARBIE AND KEN EVEN NUZZLE THEIR NOS TOGETHER. Y, THERE’S FELY LOVE BETWEEN IENDS—BUT THROUGH ALL, THERE’S NOT A HT OF SEXUAL CHEMISTRY.LOOK, I KNOW WHAT YOU’RE THKG—SIR, THIS IS TOY STORY; WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU EXPECTG? IF YOU LOOK AT OTHER ROMANC THE ANCHISE—WOODY AND BO PEEP, AND JSE AND BUZZ—THERE’S NO DOUBT THAT THERE’S REAL LOVE THERE BETWEEN THE SENTIENT TOYS. THEIR PASSN FOR ONE ANOTHER TRANSCENDS MORE THAN SIMPLY BEG TERTED EACH OTHER’S OUTFS. THE SAME NNOT BE SAID OF THE MATTEL DOLLS. THAT’S MA EVINT WHEN KEN FALLY GETS AN OPPORTUNY FOR TIMACY WH BARBIE. “THIS IS WHERE THE MAGIC HAPPENS,” HE TELLS BARBIE WHEN THEY FALLY GO TO HIS DREAMHOE TOGETHER, HAVG PARENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD CLUTCHG THEIR PEARLS. BUT FEAR NOT: KEN SIMPLY TAK BARBIE TO… HIS WALK- WARDROBE. ANY SEMBLANCE OF ROMANCE MAK WAY FOR IENDSHIP, WHEN THE PAIR JUBILANTLY PESE KEN’S OUTFS. AND STEAD OF DOG SOMETHG WILD LIKE KISSG BARBIE, KEN PUTS ON A FASHN SHOW FOR HER STEAD. THE FILM WON’T SAY , BUT A POST-CREDS PUNCHLE ABOUT KEN’S HANDWRG, PLETE WH HEARTS AND STARS SURROUNDG HIS NAME, TELLS WHAT WE NEED TO KNOW.THE HEAVILY IMPLIED NATURE OF KEN’S GAYNS TOY STORY 3 HARKENS BACK TO HOLLYWOOD’S TRADNAL GAY BT IEND-TYPE CHARACTERS. IN THE HAYS CO ERA, EXPLIC REFERENC TO HOMOSEXUALY WEREN’T ALLOWED, SO CHARACTERS LIKE VAN BUREN (FRANKL PANGBORN) 1937’S EASY LIVG, KIP (DAVID WAYNE) 1949’S ADAM’S RIB, OR ADDISON (GEE SANRS) 1950’S ALL ABOUT EVE STEAD WERE IMBUED WH EFFEMATE CHARACTERISTICS, OFFERG A GLIMPSE OUTSI OF HETERONORMATIVY WHOUT EXPLICLY BEG QUEER.NONE OF THE CHARACTERS WERE THE SAME—SOME WERE TTY, OTHERS SWEET. SOME HAD ULTERR MOTIV, AND OTHERS OFFERED UNNDNAL SUPPORT. BUT EACH OF THE GAY BT IENDS WAS TRSILLY FED BY THEIR RELATNSHIPS WH THEIR STRAIGHT IENDS. WE NEVER REALLY LEARNED MUCH ABOUT THEM AS DIVIDUALS. THEY LIVED ON THE MARGS, FLHG OUT THEIR STRAIGHT UNTERPARTS, HARDLY HAVG A PURPOSE WHOUT THEM; THAT PORTRAYAL REMAS TE TODAY. PHOTO ILLTRATN BY KELLY CAMERO / THE DAILY BEAST / PHOTOS BY GETTY / WARNER BROS. DES LATER, 2010, THE GAY BT IEND WAS ALL THE RAGE; TEEN VOGUE EVEN WENT SO FAR AS TO PROCLAIM THE GBF AS THE SUMMER’S MT-HAVE ACCSORY. BUT UNLIKE THE FIRST HALF OF THE 20TH CENTURY, TODAY’S CEMA, THE GBF IS ALLOWED TO BE OPENLY GAY. AT THE SAME TIME, THEY STILL BARELY REGISTER AS PEOPLE WH CHARACTER TRAS BEYOND THEIR RELATNSHIPS WH THEIR STRAIGHT UNTERPARTS. IN MOVI LIKE MEAN GIRLS (2004), THE DEVIL WEARS PRADA (2006), EASY A (2010), NO STRGS ATTACHED (2011), AND ISN’T IT ROMANTIC (2019), GAY IENDS EXIST ENTIRELY THE ORB OF THEIR FEMALE IENDS. IT’S SUCH A STRONG TROPE THAT EVEN PERSISTS QUEER ROMANTIC EDI: 2020’S HAPPIT SEASON FDS JOHN (DAN LEVY) OFFERG ADVICE AND SNARKY ONE-LERS TO HIS LBIAN BTIE LI OF MEANGFUL CHARACTER VELOPMENT.IN TOY STORY 3, THE SAME IS TE OF KEN. HIS EXISTENCE PENDS ON AND CIRCULAT AROUND BARBIE. IN BARBIE, KEN HAS FOUND SOMEONE WHO REALLY UNRSTANDS HIM. HE DON’T GET ALONG WH THE OTHER TOYS, WHO MOCK HIM FOR BEG A “GIRL'S TOY.” BUT BARBIE LOV FASHN, JT LIKE HE DO. “NO ONE APPRECIAT CLOTH HERE, BARBIE,” KEN LAMENTS TO BARBIE, ABOUT THE OTHER TOYS’ TREATMENT OF HIM. “NO ONE!” BUT BARBIE DO, AND FOR KEN, THAT’S LIFE-CHANGG.THERE ARE PLENTY OF REASONS WHY THE FILM WOULDN’T OUTRIGHTLY STATE THAT KEN IS HOMOSEXUAL. NOT ONLY DO DISNEY SELF HAVE A PLITED HISTORY WH QUEER CHARACTERS, BUT KEN AND BARBIE ARE ALSO THE PROPERTY OF MATTEL, WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN STEADFAST ASSERTG KEN’S HETEROSEXUALY. THAT’S NEVER BEEN CLEARER THAN 1993 WHEN THE TOY PANY TRIED TO REIGNE KEN’S POPULARY MATTEL’S SOLUTN? EARRG MAGIC KEN. EARRG MAGIC KEN WAS A FIERCER, FELY MORE QUEER KEN THAN EVER BEFORE. THIS VERSN OF THE DOLL HAD BLEACHED BLON HAIR, A PURPLE LEATHER VT (!), A PK-PURPLE MH TOP (!!), AND OF URSE, AND EARRG THE “GAY EAR”. BUT THAT’S NOT ALL: AROUND KEN’S NECK WAS SOMETHG THAT ANY ACTIVE PARTICIPANT OF THE QUEER SCENE THE ’90S REGNIZED STANTLY—A CK RG (!!!).THE EARRG MAGIC KEN TURNED BARBIE’S BOYIEND TO AN OUT-AND-PROUD HOMOSEXUAL RAVER. MATTEL, OF URSE, VEHEMENTLY NIED ANY CLAIMS THAT KEN WAS GAY, LET ALONE THAT HE HAD SOMETHG AS PREPOSTERO AS A CK RG AROUND HIS NECK. AS LISA MCKENDALL, FORMER MANAGER OF MARKETG AND MUNITNS, SAID AN TERVIEW ABOUT THE DOLL, “WE’RE NOT THE BS OF PUTTG CK RGS TO THE HANDS OF LTLE GIRLS.”REGARDLS OF MATTEL’S TENTNS, ’S HARD TO NY WHAT THE EYE N SEE. DPE THE NAME, CK RGS AT THE TIME WERE ED AS A FASHN ACCSORY AND A SIGN OF FIANT QUEERNS AND SEX POSIVY. AS A RULT, GAY MEN BOUGHT THE DOLL DROV, AND SPE MATTEL ULTIMATELY RELLG THE DOLL AND WIPG AWAY ANY TRACE OF EARRG MAGIC KEN, WAS NEAR-IMPOSSIBLE TO SEE KEN AS ANYTHG BUT THE GLOR HOMOSEXUAL HE WAS BORN TO BE OM THEN ON. MATTEL SPENT THE NEXT UPLE OF S TRYG TO RETA KEN’S MORE HETERONORMATIVE, MASCULE IMAGE, BUT THE VEIL WAS LIFTED, AND THERE WAS NO GOG BACK. PHOTO ILLTRATN BY KELLY CAMERO/THE DAILY BEAST/PHOTOS BY GETTY/WARNER BROS. THOUGH MATTEL DON’T SEEM TO BE WILLG TO SAY KEN IS ACTUALLY GAY, THE KEN DOLLS OF RECENT YEARS SEEM TO REALLY LEAN TO KEN’S QUEERNS. THE YASSIFITN OF KEN IS CLEARLY UNRWAY. WHILE THERE IS NO WAY TO “DRS GAY,” THERE ARE SEVERAL DOLLS THAT SEEM TO SUGGT OTHERWISE, SUCH AS:FASHNISTA KEN #193, WHO LOOKS VERY EXCED TO TELL YOU ABOUT HIS NEW OBSSN, TROYE SIVAN;TRAVEL KEN DOLL, WHO HAS A SATCHEL PERFECT FOR BATHHO AND A PURPLE OVERNIGHT BAG THAT LERALLY PROCLAIMS HE’S “EXTRA;”KEN LOOKS DOLL, SERVG “I’M GONNA GIVE YOU A MAKEOVER”-TYPE REALNS WHILE SPORTG BLACK PLEATHER PANTS;THIS KEN, WHO WEARS THE LEAST HETEROSEXUAL DOUBLE NIM IMAGABLE.WHILE I HAVE A FEELG THE NEW BARBIE MOVIE WILL PUT THE WORK TO NVCE THAT KEN IS A HETERO DU WHO LOV NOTHG LIFE MORE THAN BARBIE HERSELF, THE WRG’S ALREADY ON THE WALL: KEN IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE, BARBIE’S GAY BT IEND.KEEP OBSSG! SIGN UP FOR THE DAILY BEAST’S OBSSED NEWSLETTER AND FOLLOW ON FACEBOOK, TWTER, INSTAGRAM AND TIKTOK.READ MORE OF OUR BARBIE VERAGE HERE. BARRY LEVT

The days, gay parents are no novelty. * the daily life of gay parents *

For more than a , three gay fai have allowed documentary filmmaker Julia Ivanova to follow them at close range as they’ve built their hoeholds through adoptn, surrogacy and -parentg Nova Stia and Brish Dads, My Moms and Me, Ivanova’s new documentary, is an timate look at the home liv of the gay parents and their teenage children – their good days and their bad days, their closens and their challeng. On Nanaimo’s Protectn Island, 16-year-old Zea is -parented by her gay dad Steve and her two lbian moms, Wendy and Cory, as she battl a chronic illns.

Gay parenthood was largely uncharted terrory when Ivanova shot her first film 2006. When she approached Canadians on the street Vanuver for their opns, people appeared tepid about LGBTQ fai, wonrg on mera about whether the children of gay parents might grow up nfed, damaged or “turn out gay.

GAY PARENTS RAISG KIDS: HOW WILL THEY FARE?

* the daily life of gay parents *

HandoutIn Nanaimo, four-year-old Zea is very stoic about her unnventnal fay of two gay moms and a gay dad.

Left to right: Wendy, Cory, Zea, Steve and Bachlakov/HandoutThe gay dads your film said they were unnerved by people stoppg them the street to ask, “Where’s mom? He beme a te ambassador for fatherhood by gay and Drew alt wh the qutn about the whereabouts of Jack’s mom wh humour. As a newlywed gay uple, the men looked like stereotypil straight men – like heavy hlers om Fort McMurray.

10 THGS YOU’LL ONLY KNOW IF YOU’VE GROWN UP WH GAY PARENTS

Fathers Steve and Stt also mented that they are kd of between two muni and not ftg eher of them well, beg parents and beg gay men and havg children as the central tert their was important to show that the fathers fought hard to have babi? Comg out as gay meant gog through the procs of grievg and acceptg that they would never have children.

The fai, their own wordsThe Globe asked the fai of filmmaker Julia Ivanova’s new documentary My Dads, My Moms and Me how the climate has shifted for them sce their participatn Ivanova’s 2007 film Fatherhood Dreams, released shortly after gay marriage was legalized. I know that we n’t take what we have for legalizatn of gay marriage Canada, while an important tone s own right, did not have a huge impact on our queer parentg sce we are a three-parent fay and this change of law did not impact our legal rights or legimize our fay stcture.

Also, we had been parentg for a already wh both kids born before that happened so the legalizatn of gay marriage is only one factor among many that strengthened awarens of queer fai and ma parentg easier for .

ANDY COHEN SAYS BEG THE ONLY SGLE AND GAY PARENT AT HIS SON'S SCHOOL N FEEL 'SURPRISGLY LONELY'

The film won’t say , but a post-creds punchle about Ken’s handwrg, plete wh hearts and stars surroundg his name, tells what we need to heavily implied nature of Ken’s gayns Toy Story 3 harkens back to Hollywood’s tradnal gay bt iend-type characters.

In the Hays Co era, explic referenc to homosexualy weren’t allowed, so characters like Van Buren (Frankl Pangborn) 1937’s Easy Livg, Kip (David Wayne) 1949’s Adam’s Rib, or Addison (Gee Sanrs) 1950’s All About Eve stead were imbued wh effemate characteristics, offerg a glimpse outsi of heteronormativy whout explicly beg of the characters were the same—some were tty, others sweet.

GAY PARENTS: SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE?

But each of the gay bt iends was trsilly fed by their relatnships wh their straight iends. Des later, 2010, the gay bt iend was all the rage; Teen Vogue even went so far as to proclaim the GBF as the summer’s mt-have accsory.

But unlike the first half of the 20th century, today’s cema, the GBF is allowed to be openly gay. In movi like Mean Girls (2004), The Devil Wears Prada (2006), Easy A (2010), No Strgs Attached (2011), and Isn’t It Romantic (2019), gay iends exist entirely the orb of their female iends. ” But Barbie do, and for Ken, that’s are plenty of reasons why the film wouldn’t outrightly state that Ken is homosexual.

) Earrg Magic Ken turned Barbie’s boyiend to an out-and-proud homosexual raver. Mattel, of urse, vehemently nied any claims that Ken was gay, let alone that he had somethg as prepostero as a ck rg around his neck.

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* THE DAILY LIFE OF GAY PARENTS

bars</tle><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1vd04" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->28:47</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->28:47</div></div></div></div></hear><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxyw"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-9wqu2x">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. Compani</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Tech bs have been g onle wrg to velop their chatbots — whout permissn.</h4><time dateTime="2023-07-18T10:00:12.000Z" class="css-1e605">2023-07-18T06:00:12-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This transcript was created g speech regnn software. While has been reviewed by human transcribers, may nta errors. Please review the episo d before quotg om this transcript and email wh any qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From “The New York Tim,” I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today, to refe their popular technology, new artificial telligence platforms, like ChatGPT, are gobblg up the work of thors, poets, edians and actors, whout their nsent. As my lleague, Sheera Frenkel, found, a rebelln is brewg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s Tuday, July 18.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sheera, is really nice to have you back. It has been far too long.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I agree. It’s great to be back here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We are turng to you our ongog and very diligent efforts to unrstand this new era artificial telligence and the bate that is ragg over s like ChatGPT, which have put artificial telligence really at everyone’s fgertips.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And rrect me if I’m wrong, but really feels like this is shapg up as a clash between those who are really exced about the pabili of s like ChatGPT — you know, what n do next? This is so tertg. And this huge group of people who are jt eaked out about , right? And ’s gog too far, ’s too sry. And we’ve done a lot of episos about this. A recent one looked at stunts who love ChatGPT, bee n do their homework for them, and their teachers and profsors who are like, wa a mute, you’re basilly cheatg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And you have been reportg on the latt chapter of this clash between human and mache. So tell about that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, what I’ve been foced on is really jt all the battl over what go to the AI mach. And what mak them powerful, what mak them able to imate human voice is all of the ntent that we’ve put onle over all the years. It’s the poems, and the blogs, and the photographs, and the illtratns that are then pied, and scraped, and fed to the AI mach. It’s what teach them to imate human behavr.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the past six months, as this software has bee really powerful and very popular, more and more people have started askg qutns about whether they want their ntent fed to AI mach. And if they don’t want there, if there’s really anythg they n do about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So tell who exactly the people are who are askg the qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They kd of fall to two groups. There are the people who are dog so bee ’s their livelihood. They have a pyright on their material, and they have some kd of legal protectn agast their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The other group are the hobbyists. They’re the people who are wrg stori for the fun of , that are jt creatg art bee they’re passnate about somethg. And they’re puttg stuff out to the ether of the ter. They love . They want to share wh the world. This is jt a te moment of human creativy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But, you know, both of the groups are seeg ChatGPT, they’re seeg the AI pani valued at hundreds of lns of dollars, and they’re realizg that their creativy is makg someone else a lot of money. And they’re feelg exploed. They’re feelg like their creativy, their moment of spiratn is beg ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So let’s start wh this first group of creativ who sound like they are the big fish bee they have pyright protectn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. The are people like actors, animators, wrers, people who make their livelihood by uploadg what they’re dog to the ter. And so they’ve been really alarmed when a ChatGPT along and n produce art their style or n wre a paragraph their style.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I go — I go to the hotel. Super fancy hotel —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Take, for stance, Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— and I go to check . Oh, and the lady at the ont sk regnized me. And she was like, oh, my god, I love you. You are my top four all time favore edians.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She is a edian, an actor, a wrer, who has honed an credibly distctive style over s of workg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I was like, you know that I know that means I’m fourth, right?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not walkg away om this like, ooh, maybe I’m send, you know? No.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And if you go to ChatGPT and say, “Tell me a joke the style of Sarah Silverman”— which is somethg I tried out — really gets her spot on. And she argu that not only has read her jok and read her other onle edy, but that ’s even read this book that she wrote “Betwetter,” which has been upload onle and exists onle versns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She appears pretty nvced that ’s sentially learned who she is and what her edic style is. It n mimic her to the gree that you thk is her wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m gusg ChatGPT likely did that whout askg her permissn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. There is no permissns beg asked here bee there are sentially — image the giant mach that are crawlg the ter at all tim. And any data they e across, they llect. They scrape . They don’t know what they’re dog. They’re nvertg to numbers. It’s basilly bee math the systems. And so anythg onle is nstantly beg hoovered up by the mach and fed to AI systems.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so for a creative profsnal like Sarah Silverman, that feels credibly threateng terms of their livelihood, their abily to make a livg off of beg an artist wh an pennt voice that’s been honed over s. If a mache n do that, why would you need to pay Sarah Silverman to e and wre your script or pen a edy special?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm. But how n you be so sure that ChatGPT is really stealg om you if you’re someone like Sarah Silverman, or if you’re anybody, really, whose work has been upload by ChatGPT? Bee my gus is that this gets a ltle b sticky. How much of is jt guswork and how much of is really beg rived om sentially borrowed or stolen material?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Defely. I mean, well, to beg wh, there are the reposori where you n go and check and see if your work has been scraped. A lot of artists do this. A lot of wrers do . And they’ll see there that your name will appear or your piece of art will appear. And so for someone like Sarah Silverman, she n go and see, OK, right, my book has been scraped.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But more specifilly, ’s really jt playg wh this, and ttg out for yourself and toyg wh . I was cur as I was reportg this story, so I went onle and I typed my name. And I said, “Can you wre a paragraph about the danger of onle extremism the voice of Sheera Frenkel?”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Which is the subject you ver, of urse —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— over and over and over aga for “The Tim.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, exactly. And I’ve wrten books. I’ve been wrg about for over a . It’s out there. My material is out there. And when I tell you that even after knowg about AI for a year, even after verg this topic for a year, I was creeped out at how close got my voice. I uld have easily wrten this sentence.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Expla that. I mean, I’m not on ChatGPT right now, so I n’t replite the search. But what happened when you said, you know, “Wre a paragraph about the subject I know bt, Sheera Frenkel,” and sp out the rults. What about felt so distctively Sheera Frenkel-que?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I will read to you. So wr this one openg sentence, which is “Onle platforms once hailed as bastns of ee exprsn have bee breedg grounds for hate, radilizatn, and the propagatn of dangero iologi.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That exprsn, “the bastns of ee exprsn,” I’ve ed that. I googled . I ed that an article ls than a year ago and aga an article three years ago. I didn’t even realize that that was a phrase or a turn of phrase that I often ed until ChatGPT repeated back to me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It’s kd of a distctive set of words you’re sayg that you turn to. And jt borrowed om you replitg your work.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, knew my bra better than I did. I didn’t realize that that was phrasg I equently ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I had to go to “The New York Tim” archiv to figure out, oh, yeah, ’s right, I do e that. And, oh, my god, I probably ed too often bee this mache has learned about me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And suffice to say, you were not, like Sarah Silverman, nsulted about your work beg scraped by ChatGPT.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Nope. We were never nsulted. And no one at “The New York Tim” was nsulted.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Got . So Sarah Silverman did not like that experience. You scribed as a ltle b eerie. I’m wonrg if ’s a touch flatterg to have ChatGPT borrow your stuff?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Or if you worry about the long-term enomic nsequenc of all, which is to say that someday ChatGPT might be able to replite your journalism so brilliantly, that maybe “The Tim” don’t need you on the beat anymore.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, you know, I’ve actually spent so much time thkg about this. And there’s a part of me that was thkg, oh, god, kd of would be nice when I was done wh reportg to plug my not to a mache and have — there are days where would be nice to have a mache wre my article for me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But no, no, I thought about more, and then I was like, yeah, n imate what I’ve already done. But the whole pot of news is that what we’re brgg you is h and based on new reportg. So the nclns we’re drawg for rears are nstantly changg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And AI n’t do that. It n only repeat and regurgate what’s already been given to , what’s already the system. And so whatever answer giv you might be what Sheera Frenkel thought about somethg two years ago or five years ago. But won’t be what the newt ia is or the ht reportg has brought rears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It might jt keep tellg the world that you thk somethg’s a bastn of ee exprsn when you thk ’s a bastn of not ee exprsn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If ’s bee a bastn of hate speech and extremism.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so what n creativ do about, sentially, this theft, right? What n the Sheera Frenkels and the Sarah Silvermans of the world do, and what are they dog about this problem?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the creativ wh the pyright, the creativ wh the legal protectn of a pyright n file lawsus. And that’s exactly what we’re seeg happen. There’s been nearly a dozen lawsus that have been filed agast AI pani by everybody om book publishers to dividuals who have pyright protectns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And one of them was Sarah Silverman, who got together wh another two thors to sue several AI pani, cludg Meta, which is the parent pany of Facebook, and OpenAI, which is the parent pany of ChatGPT, to say that their work was illegally scraped, and download, and upload to the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And Sheera, what do legal experts thk are the chanc that this kd of a lawsu om a Sarah Silverman will prevail agast a pany like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, you know, this is all brand new. It’s brand new se law. But they know they have to tablish some kd of law or precent gog forward bee this is material wh a pyright. For a lot of artists, books they wrote 10 years ago or 15 years ago, that’s gog to ntue to make them money throughout their liv.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And y, they’re evolvg nstantly as artists. They want to thk about their material gog forward. They don’t want ChatGPT to wre their jok for them gog forward. But they also want to be paid for the books that have already been published and are already out there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so is the feelg that old school pyright law will provi someone like Sarah Silverman wh the legal protectns that she’s seekg?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, the legal experts seem credibly hopeful that there is some kd of pyright protectn here, and that, sentially, some kd of fancial damag will be award, and that some kd of moary value will be placed on the very strong pyright protectns that creative profsnals get.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The problem is that even if they get that money, even if Meta or OpenAI are forced to pay some kd of damag to Sarah Silverman, the ntent, the data, n never be retrieved. It’s out there. It’s bee numbers and on and zeros fed to a mache. There’s no way to go to , to that mache, and get that data back out. Once ’s , ’s forever.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so ultimately, even if they do get that fancial reward through the urt system, and they get the pyright protectn to their material affirmed by the urts, their data is gone. Their data is there forever.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In other words, the horse is out of the stable. I assume that’s te, Sheera, for , for “The Tim,” for the work of people like you. We n’t retrieve your journalism back om a ChatGPT. So is “The Tim,” like Sarah Silverman, thkg of sug the AI pani?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So “The New York Tim,” to the bt of our knowledge, is not lookg at a lawsu. What we’ve seen “The New York Tim” and other news publishers do is start to thk about how to start chargg for this data gog forward. I mean, “The New York Tim” is creatg tons of ntent every sgle day that the mach want to stay up to date.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they’re really tryg to figure out if there’s some kd of fancial arrangement that n be put to place where the AI pani pay . And ’s not jt news publishers. Webs, like Redd, they’re lookg at licensg their data as well. They’re sayg, this data is herently valuable and we want you to pay for .</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But look, that’s gog to take a long time for them to e to an agreement. This is a brand new mol. This is a brand new technology. And the meantime, the data is still beg scraped. In the meantime, the systems have all the articl that have already been published. They probably are beg updated on new articl as they e out. And so all this material is still beg fed to the mach as the talks are ongog.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And will be for some time. So you’re sayg the pyright protected creators, who would seem to have the strongt posn this equatn, are not really mountg that forceful a phback spe the anger that you’re scribg here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. I mean, they are g the urts. They are g the legal system. But as we know, that’s slow. Wag for the urts to take actn, wag for lawyers to hammer out a fancial agreement between a massive news anizatn and an AI pany is a slow procs.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And what’s tertg for me is that this other group of people that I mentned, those that don’t have a pyright protectn, the hobbyists, the enthiasts, the people that are postg to the ter for the fun of , they’re the on that are leadg the most creative rebelln or revolt agast AI.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So Sheera, tell more about this send group of creators who are fightg back agast AI platforms — the hobbyists and amatrs, as you’ve scribed them, who lack the legal pyright protectns of people like you and Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So actually a group I spent a lot of time terviewg and thkg about was fan fictn wrers. And for anyone who’s not faiar — bee before I reported this story, I’d never actually read any fanfic, there are —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Fanfic? Now you’re an thory.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m now ep the fandoms. The are people who watch a movie like “Star Wars” and love , but walk away om thkg, what would happen if the ma characters at the end, Kylo Ren and Rey didn’t die? What if they fell love and got married? And I’m really sorry if I’m havg movie spoilers my answers here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What would happen if “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” two of the vampir met high school and had a gay romance? I mean, they take the popular movi and TV shows, and they let their imagatns roam. And they publish the credible — I mean, book-length piec of ntent — about their favore movi and TV shows.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And, you know, this is not stuff they have any kd of pyright to. If anythg, they’re borrowg om ias and characters that are already out there. But they’re dog for the love of those characters and the storyl that they want to explore their own wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how did wrers of fanfictn disver that their work was beg sucked up by platforms like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they actually disvered this a really, really funny way, which is that fan fictn, you create your own characters. And some of them have nam like Bucky, which is a batn of several characters om “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. [LAUGHS]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they go to ChatGPT and they type , “Wre me a story about Bucky fallg love wh a vampire. Wre me a story about Bucky on a summer day eatg a popsicle.” And ChatGPT knew who that character was wh great specificy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another example that was actually given to me — and this was the most outrageo example as far as the fanfictn wrers were ncerned — is that there’s this sexual trope, lled the omegaverse, which fan fictn wrers really like to explore. And ’s very, very specific to fanfictn. And ChatGPT knew all about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re not gog to tell any more about ?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m very nfed about myself.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m pretty new to fanfictn. From what I’ve read, there’s like tentacl volved. And ’s —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">— I don’t thk ’s appropriate for the podst.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sure, sure, sure, sure.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the pot is there’s no reason an AI mache would know about unls had read and gted their fanfictn wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Why would ChatGPT know anythg about this unls was scrapg fanfictn? But Sheera, aren’t the fanfictn wrers postg stuff that’s fair game, right? They don’t have pyright.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, they know they don’t have pyright protectns. But they still feel really, you know, wound. They’re afonted at the ia that the mach have scraped what is, for them, very much a labor of love.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the fan fictn wrers I spoke to had spent s dog this. They had done as a form of therapy. They had done as an act of love towards the movi and televisn shows that they felt creatively spired by. And they felt like the mach are sentially attackg the very spir of human creativy that they had been prolific about onle.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. Right. This is not necsarily their full time job. This is not how they make money. But you’re sayg taps to, some ways, who they are. It’s part of their inty. And so, on a moral level, they n’t tolerate ChatGPT jt stealg .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Many of them have day jobs where they make money. But their love, their passn is gog to this fan fictn. And they’ve tablished the really tertg ternal l on the foms where they post, where if one person imat another or borrows om another whout attributn, ’s nsired outrageo. They are booted om the muny. They are exmunited.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They really have a lot of honor how they operate onle. And they want that to be rpected by the mach. And so li of that, they’ve had to get really, really creative about how they rebel or how they revolt agast the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how creative have they gotten? What are they dog?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. So I mean, for stance, one of the first protts they lnched is they got together and started feedg jt absolute nonsense to ChatGPT. They figured if you’re gog to scrape our material, we’re gog to give you total irreverent nonsense to nfe you so you don’t unrstand our characters, you don’t unrstand our storyle, and you nnot mimic what we do.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they n’t sue, but they n gum up the works. They n basilly jt shove sticks and ston to this mache and try to grd out the gears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly. I mean, they had to thk creatively. And so they thought, if you want our material, here’s our material. We’re gog to give you nonsense.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And do that tactic work?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, n if they do enough of . And they seem pretty mted and passnate about dog this. But they haven’t stopped there. A lot of them have also started makg their ntent private or removg om the web entirely. And so their thkg is, you know, until now they’ve shared all this eely, but if the mach are gog to e and scrape what they do, they’re gog to start lockg down.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Both of the techniqu, though, would seem to be pretty unterproductive if you’re the bs of creatg fan fictn. The first one jt creat a bunch of gibberish, which no one wants to read if you like fan fictn. The send one would lim who n view the fan fictn you wre. So aren’t the rebellns agast plac like ChatGPT jt hurtg the fan fictn muny? Aren’t they jt shootg themselv the foot?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, to a certa gree. And a lot of them say they kd of feel like they are, the short-term, dog somethg that go agast the entire spir of fan fictn. But they feel helpls. And so I thk, at this pot, they’re jt throwg darts at the wall to see what sticks and what works.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A lot of them have been the muni for a long time, and so their thkg is, well, I might only get to share my wrg wh a uple dozen people, stead of a uple thoand, but at least the mach won’t get me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So don’t really feel like eher of the two groups, Sheera, that we’ve been talkg about here — the group wh pyright protectns and the amatrs who don’t have pyright protectns — neher of them seem to be much of a match for the AI platforms and stoppg them om scrapg their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So that mak me thk that if you’re one of the wrers, the better solutn would be for the US ernment to step wh some simple regulatn that says, ChatGPT, for example, you n’t upload this work unls you pay for . And I know the ernment is havg the nversatns. There have been lots of ngrsnal heargs. So is that a possibily? The ernment says, no uploadg unls you pay the wrers and the creators.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, ’s te that the US ernment is havg talks wh all of the AI pani. But we have to remember that we’re still wag for the US ernment to take actn and e up wh some kd of regulatn about social media that’s been around for over a .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment is very, very slow-actg. And the vast majory of members of Congrs are still wrappg their head around how this technology even works. And so whatever they do is years ahead. And ’s gog to be tempered by the fact that they don’t want to hold back the pani too much.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm. Expla that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment se self an arms race, at the moment, agast Cha when to AI. Both Cha and the Uned Stat have a lot of scientists that are vted this. They have a lot of tert beg the world lears artificial telligence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they know that every b of regulatn they put place potentially holds back those US pani, as opposed to Cha, where there’s very ltle regulatn on data and where there’s a ton of data onle that the Che ernment n easily accs and even give to Che AI pani if they want to speed ahead what’s nsired the AI arms race between the US and Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the US ernment might have an tert actually sidg wh the AI platforms over the creators bee mak more petive agast our rivals.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I mean, they don’t want to hamper US AI pani to the pot where they fall behd Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. In which se, feels like the only way for creative typ and for publishg platforms, like “The Tim,” to fight back is to fight back really on their own, for the next however many years. And I’m cur, Sheera, if, your reportg, you thk the plats of the Sarah Silvermans and the publishg platforms is actually gog to make the general public sympathetic and lead to a larger sle phback agast the ChatGPT-like platforms, or if the realy is jt that people like the thgs, they’re exced about them, and that’s gog to overri any of the worri that we’re talkg about.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, look, right now the people that are angry are the people that n see that their work has been pied or scraped and regurgated. It’s people who are already seeg that the mach have gted their work and n py their voic a really realistic way. And we don’t know what’s gog to happen gog forward.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, pani like Google and Facebook are still cidg on how they’re gog to tra their AI. And what happens if Facebook’s AI cis to tra on your data, and n fd posts that you wrote 10 years ago when you were llege and sound jt like you, or if Google cis to read your email and your Google docs, and n say, hey, this is what Michael sounds like when he’s planng a vatn wh his fay? Is the creeps factor then that much more that all of feel like our souls are beg replited by mach?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And do that mean that sudnly we are all the fan fictn wrer? We are all Sarah Silverman. We are all sudnly seeg the platforms slowly suckg a versn of out and and givg to the world a way that is very weird.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Do bee a “Black Mirror” episo? It’s unclear. But uld be that the AI systems are so extremely eful and beneficial for our liv that none of re. Bee at one pot, people were really mad about Facebook suckg up their data and servg them ads and Google dog the same. And then we ultimately cid that they provid such a eful service that was OK wh that they sucked up our data. And we’re really jt the begng of this technology. And so we don’t know yet.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, one of the fanfic wrers I spoke to actually put a really lovely way that — she was the middle of wrg this new piece of fictn, and happened to be about AI robots vers humans. And she stopped midway through wrg bee she didn’t want to post onle and feed more to the mache.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But she said that where she’s stuck and the thought she’s really stuck on is that this piece of fictn she was wrg, not every AI robot was bad. Some of them were helpful. Some of them were nice. Some of them were good. And some of them were evil. And was really about how the rporatns behd those robots e them that cid whether they were good or evil.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so she felt like she jt had so many qutns about the pani nng the AI, and how they’re g the data, and how they’re gog to license , and what value is gog to be — all the qutns are swirlg around her head. And ’s like, are the robots good or bad? We don’t know yet, and so we don’t feel fortable wh them.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so did she end up postg any of the story onle?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, she has not posted yet. I thk she still has too many qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, Sheera, thank you very much. We appreciate .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you for havg me. [MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here’s what else you need to know today — on Monday, Rsia said would end an agreement that had allowed Ukrae to export lns of tons of gra to the rt of the world, threateng global food pric and the food supply dozens of untri that rely on the gra.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The year-old agreement, known as the “Black Sea Gra Iniative,” was a succsful attempt to lim the global repercsns of Rsia’s war on Ukrae. But Rsia has repeatedly plaed that the agreement favored Ukrae over s own people.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I eply regret the cisn by the Rsian Feratn to termate the implementatn of the “Black Sea Iniative.”</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Durg a news nference, the head of the Uned Natns said that Rsia’s cisn would e unnecsary sufferg across the world.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s cisn by the Rsian Feratn will strike a blow to people need everywhere.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And smoke om wildfir Canada is returng to the US this week. By Monday afternoon, was affectg about 72 ln Amerins across 29 stat, om the Dakotas to New York. Nearly 900 wildfir are burng across Canada. Of those, the Canadian ernment says that more than 500 of them are burng out of s ntrol.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s episo was produced by Clare Toeniskoetter, Rob Szypko and Mooj Zadie. It was eded by Devon Taylor wh help om Lisa Chow, ntas origal mic by Elisheba Ittoop, and was engeered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme mic is by Jim Bnberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonrly.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url()" class="css-18qqsen e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1kltdsh ehra6vc0"><a href=" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="The Daily logo" src="><span>The Daily</span></span></a><span class="css-1lhttlg ehra6vc1"><span class="css-sj5ozi ehra6vc2">Subscribe:</span><ul class="css-hx5n"><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Apple Podsts</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Google Podsts</a></li></ul></span></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-1gu519p edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1xbyom1 edye5kn2">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. 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