bars</tle><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1vd04" ata-animator-group="te" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00<!-- -->/<!-- -->28:47</div><div class="css-og85jy">-<!-- -->28:47</div></div></div></div></hear><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxyw"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-9wqu2x">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. Compani</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Tech bs have been g onle wrg to velop their chatbots — whout permissn.</h4><time dateTime="2023-07-18T10:00:12.000Z" class="css-1e605">2023-07-18T06:00:12-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This transcript was created g speech regnn software. While has been reviewed by human transcribers, may nta errors. Please review the episo d before quotg om this transcript and email wh any qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From “The New York Tim,” I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today, to refe their popular technology, new artificial telligence platforms, like ChatGPT, are gobblg up the work of thors, poets, edians and actors, whout their nsent. As my lleague, Sheera Frenkel, found, a rebelln is brewg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s Tuday, July 18.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sheera, is really nice to have you back. It has been far too long.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I agree. It’s great to be back here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We are turng to you our ongog and very diligent efforts to unrstand this new era artificial telligence and the bate that is ragg over s like ChatGPT, which have put artificial telligence really at everyone’s fgertips.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And rrect me if I’m wrong, but really feels like this is shapg up as a clash between those who are really exced about the pabili of s like ChatGPT — you know, what n do next? This is so tertg. And this huge group of people who are jt eaked out about , right? And ’s gog too far, ’s too sry. And we’ve done a lot of episos about this. A recent one looked at stunts who love ChatGPT, bee n do their homework for them, and their teachers and profsors who are like, wa a mute, you’re basilly cheatg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And you have been reportg on the latt chapter of this clash between human and mache. So tell about that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, what I’ve been foced on is really jt all the battl over what go to the AI mach. And what mak them powerful, what mak them able to imate human voice is all of the ntent that we’ve put onle over all the years. It’s the poems, and the blogs, and the photographs, and the illtratns that are then pied, and scraped, and fed to the AI mach. It’s what teach them to imate human behavr.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the past six months, as this software has bee really powerful and very popular, more and more people have started askg qutns about whether they want their ntent fed to AI mach. And if they don’t want there, if there’s really anythg they n do about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So tell who exactly the people are who are askg the qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They kd of fall to two groups. There are the people who are dog so bee ’s their livelihood. They have a pyright on their material, and they have some kd of legal protectn agast their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The other group are the hobbyists. They’re the people who are wrg stori for the fun of , that are jt creatg art bee they’re passnate about somethg. And they’re puttg stuff out to the ether of the ter. They love . They want to share wh the world. This is jt a te moment of human creativy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But, you know, both of the groups are seeg ChatGPT, they’re seeg the AI pani valued at hundreds of lns of dollars, and they’re realizg that their creativy is makg someone else a lot of money. And they’re feelg exploed. They’re feelg like their creativy, their moment of spiratn is beg ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So let’s start wh this first group of creativ who sound like they are the big fish bee they have pyright protectn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. The are people like actors, animators, wrers, people who make their livelihood by uploadg what they’re dog to the ter. And so they’ve been really alarmed when a ChatGPT along and n produce art their style or n wre a paragraph their style.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I go — I go to the hotel. Super fancy hotel —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Take, for stance, Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— and I go to check . Oh, and the lady at the ont sk regnized me. And she was like, oh, my god, I love you. You are my top four all time favore edians.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She is a edian, an actor, a wrer, who has honed an credibly distctive style over s of workg.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg (sarah silverman)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I was like, you know that I know that means I’m fourth, right?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not walkg away om this like, ooh, maybe I’m send, you know? No.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And if you go to ChatGPT and say, “Tell me a joke the style of Sarah Silverman”— which is somethg I tried out — really gets her spot on. And she argu that not only has read her jok and read her other onle edy, but that ’s even read this book that she wrote “Betwetter,” which has been upload onle and exists onle versns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She appears pretty nvced that ’s sentially learned who she is and what her edic style is. It n mimic her to the gree that you thk is her wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m gusg ChatGPT likely did that whout askg her permissn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. There is no permissns beg asked here bee there are sentially — image the giant mach that are crawlg the ter at all tim. And any data they e across, they llect. They scrape . They don’t know what they’re dog. They’re nvertg to numbers. It’s basilly bee math the systems. And so anythg onle is nstantly beg hoovered up by the mach and fed to AI systems.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so for a creative profsnal like Sarah Silverman, that feels credibly threateng terms of their livelihood, their abily to make a livg off of beg an artist wh an pennt voice that’s been honed over s. If a mache n do that, why would you need to pay Sarah Silverman to e and wre your script or pen a edy special?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mm-hmm. But how n you be so sure that ChatGPT is really stealg om you if you’re someone like Sarah Silverman, or if you’re anybody, really, whose work has been upload by ChatGPT? Bee my gus is that this gets a ltle b sticky. How much of is jt guswork and how much of is really beg rived om sentially borrowed or stolen material?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Defely. I mean, well, to beg wh, there are the reposori where you n go and check and see if your work has been scraped. A lot of artists do this. A lot of wrers do . And they’ll see there that your name will appear or your piece of art will appear. And so for someone like Sarah Silverman, she n go and see, OK, right, my book has been scraped.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But more specifilly, ’s really jt playg wh this, and ttg out for yourself and toyg wh . I was cur as I was reportg this story, so I went onle and I typed my name. And I said, “Can you wre a paragraph about the danger of onle extremism the voice of Sheera Frenkel?”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Which is the subject you ver, of urse —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">— over and over and over aga for “The Tim.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Y, exactly. And I’ve wrten books. I’ve been wrg about for over a . It’s out there. My material is out there. And when I tell you that even after knowg about AI for a year, even after verg this topic for a year, I was creeped out at how close got my voice. I uld have easily wrten this sentence.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Expla that. I mean, I’m not on ChatGPT right now, so I n’t replite the search. But what happened when you said, you know, “Wre a paragraph about the subject I know bt, Sheera Frenkel,” and sp out the rults. What about felt so distctively Sheera Frenkel-que?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I will read to you. So wr this one openg sentence, which is “Onle platforms once hailed as bastns of ee exprsn have bee breedg grounds for hate, radilizatn, and the propagatn of dangero iologi.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That exprsn, “the bastns of ee exprsn,” I’ve ed that. I googled . I ed that an article ls than a year ago and aga an article three years ago. I didn’t even realize that that was a phrase or a turn of phrase that I often ed until ChatGPT repeated back to me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It’s kd of a distctive set of words you’re sayg that you turn to. And jt borrowed om you replitg your work.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, knew my bra better than I did. I didn’t realize that that was phrasg I equently ed.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I had to go to “The New York Tim” archiv to figure out, oh, yeah, ’s right, I do e that. And, oh, my god, I probably ed too often bee this mache has learned about me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And suffice to say, you were not, like Sarah Silverman, nsulted about your work beg scraped by ChatGPT.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Nope. We were never nsulted. And no one at “The New York Tim” was nsulted.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Got . So Sarah Silverman did not like that experience. You scribed as a ltle b eerie. I’m wonrg if ’s a touch flatterg to have ChatGPT borrow your stuff?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Or if you worry about the long-term enomic nsequenc of all, which is to say that someday ChatGPT might be able to replite your journalism so brilliantly, that maybe “The Tim” don’t need you on the beat anymore.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, you know, I’ve actually spent so much time thkg about this. And there’s a part of me that was thkg, oh, god, kd of would be nice when I was done wh reportg to plug my not to a mache and have — there are days where would be nice to have a mache wre my article for me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But no, no, I thought about more, and then I was like, yeah, n imate what I’ve already done. But the whole pot of news is that what we’re brgg you is h and based on new reportg. So the nclns we’re drawg for rears are nstantly changg.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And AI n’t do that. It n only repeat and regurgate what’s already been given to , what’s already the system. And so whatever answer giv you might be what Sheera Frenkel thought about somethg two years ago or five years ago. But won’t be what the newt ia is or the ht reportg has brought rears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. It might jt keep tellg the world that you thk somethg’s a bastn of ee exprsn when you thk ’s a bastn of not ee exprsn.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">If ’s bee a bastn of hate speech and extremism.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, so what n creativ do about, sentially, this theft, right? What n the Sheera Frenkels and the Sarah Silvermans of the world do, and what are they dog about this problem?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the creativ wh the pyright, the creativ wh the legal protectn of a pyright n file lawsus. And that’s exactly what we’re seeg happen. There’s been nearly a dozen lawsus that have been filed agast AI pani by everybody om book publishers to dividuals who have pyright protectns.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And one of them was Sarah Silverman, who got together wh another two thors to sue several AI pani, cludg Meta, which is the parent pany of Facebook, and OpenAI, which is the parent pany of ChatGPT, to say that their work was illegally scraped, and download, and upload to the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And Sheera, what do legal experts thk are the chanc that this kd of a lawsu om a Sarah Silverman will prevail agast a pany like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, you know, this is all brand new. It’s brand new se law. But they know they have to tablish some kd of law or precent gog forward bee this is material wh a pyright. For a lot of artists, books they wrote 10 years ago or 15 years ago, that’s gog to ntue to make them money throughout their liv.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And y, they’re evolvg nstantly as artists. They want to thk about their material gog forward. They don’t want ChatGPT to wre their jok for them gog forward. But they also want to be paid for the books that have already been published and are already out there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so is the feelg that old school pyright law will provi someone like Sarah Silverman wh the legal protectns that she’s seekg?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, the legal experts seem credibly hopeful that there is some kd of pyright protectn here, and that, sentially, some kd of fancial damag will be award, and that some kd of moary value will be placed on the very strong pyright protectns that creative profsnals get.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The problem is that even if they get that money, even if Meta or OpenAI are forced to pay some kd of damag to Sarah Silverman, the ntent, the data, n never be retrieved. It’s out there. It’s bee numbers and on and zeros fed to a mache. There’s no way to go to , to that mache, and get that data back out. Once ’s , ’s forever.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so ultimately, even if they do get that fancial reward through the urt system, and they get the pyright protectn to their material affirmed by the urts, their data is gone. Their data is there forever.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In other words, the horse is out of the stable. I assume that’s te, Sheera, for , for “The Tim,” for the work of people like you. We n’t retrieve your journalism back om a ChatGPT. So is “The Tim,” like Sarah Silverman, thkg of sug the AI pani?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So “The New York Tim,” to the bt of our knowledge, is not lookg at a lawsu. What we’ve seen “The New York Tim” and other news publishers do is start to thk about how to start chargg for this data gog forward. I mean, “The New York Tim” is creatg tons of ntent every sgle day that the mach want to stay up to date.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they’re really tryg to figure out if there’s some kd of fancial arrangement that n be put to place where the AI pani pay . And ’s not jt news publishers. Webs, like Redd, they’re lookg at licensg their data as well. They’re sayg, this data is herently valuable and we want you to pay for .</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But look, that’s gog to take a long time for them to e to an agreement. This is a brand new mol. This is a brand new technology. And the meantime, the data is still beg scraped. In the meantime, the systems have all the articl that have already been published. They probably are beg updated on new articl as they e out. And so all this material is still beg fed to the mach as the talks are ongog.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And will be for some time. So you’re sayg the pyright protected creators, who would seem to have the strongt posn this equatn, are not really mountg that forceful a phback spe the anger that you’re scribg here.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. I mean, they are g the urts. They are g the legal system. But as we know, that’s slow. Wag for the urts to take actn, wag for lawyers to hammer out a fancial agreement between a massive news anizatn and an AI pany is a slow procs.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And what’s tertg for me is that this other group of people that I mentned, those that don’t have a pyright protectn, the hobbyists, the enthiasts, the people that are postg to the ter for the fun of , they’re the on that are leadg the most creative rebelln or revolt agast AI.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So Sheera, tell more about this send group of creators who are fightg back agast AI platforms — the hobbyists and amatrs, as you’ve scribed them, who lack the legal pyright protectns of people like you and Sarah Silverman.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So actually a group I spent a lot of time terviewg and thkg about was fan fictn wrers. And for anyone who’s not faiar — bee before I reported this story, I’d never actually read any fanfic, there are —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Fanfic? Now you’re an thory.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m now ep the fandoms. The are people who watch a movie like “Star Wars” and love , but walk away om thkg, what would happen if the ma characters at the end, Kylo Ren and Rey didn’t die? What if they fell love and got married? And I’m really sorry if I’m havg movie spoilers my answers here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What would happen if “Buffy the Vampire Slayer,” two of the vampir met high school and had a gay romance? I mean, they take the popular movi and TV shows, and they let their imagatns roam. And they publish the credible — I mean, book-length piec of ntent — about their favore movi and TV shows.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And, you know, this is not stuff they have any kd of pyright to. If anythg, they’re borrowg om ias and characters that are already out there. But they’re dog for the love of those characters and the storyl that they want to explore their own wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how did wrers of fanfictn disver that their work was beg sucked up by platforms like ChatGPT?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they actually disvered this a really, really funny way, which is that fan fictn, you create your own characters. And some of them have nam like Bucky, which is a batn of several characters om “Buffy the Vampire Slayer.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. [LAUGHS]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they go to ChatGPT and they type , “Wre me a story about Bucky fallg love wh a vampire. Wre me a story about Bucky on a summer day eatg a popsicle.” And ChatGPT knew who that character was wh great specificy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another example that was actually given to me — and this was the most outrageo example as far as the fanfictn wrers were ncerned — is that there’s this sexual trope, lled the omegaverse, which fan fictn wrers really like to explore. And ’s very, very specific to fanfictn. And ChatGPT knew all about .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re not gog to tell any more about ?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m very nfed about myself.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[lghs]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I’m pretty new to fanfictn. From what I’ve read, there’s like tentacl volved. And ’s —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">— I don’t thk ’s appropriate for the podst.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sure, sure, sure, sure.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the pot is there’s no reason an AI mache would know about unls had read and gted their fanfictn wrg.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Why would ChatGPT know anythg about this unls was scrapg fanfictn? But Sheera, aren’t the fanfictn wrers postg stuff that’s fair game, right? They don’t have pyright.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, they know they don’t have pyright protectns. But they still feel really, you know, wound. They’re afonted at the ia that the mach have scraped what is, for them, very much a labor of love.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the fan fictn wrers I spoke to had spent s dog this. They had done as a form of therapy. They had done as an act of love towards the movi and televisn shows that they felt creatively spired by. And they felt like the mach are sentially attackg the very spir of human creativy that they had been prolific about onle.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. Right. This is not necsarily their full time job. This is not how they make money. But you’re sayg taps to, some ways, who they are. It’s part of their inty. And so, on a moral level, they n’t tolerate ChatGPT jt stealg .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Many of them have day jobs where they make money. But their love, their passn is gog to this fan fictn. And they’ve tablished the really tertg ternal l on the foms where they post, where if one person imat another or borrows om another whout attributn, ’s nsired outrageo. They are booted om the muny. They are exmunited.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They really have a lot of honor how they operate onle. And they want that to be rpected by the mach. And so li of that, they’ve had to get really, really creative about how they rebel or how they revolt agast the AI systems.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And how creative have they gotten? What are they dog?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. So I mean, for stance, one of the first protts they lnched is they got together and started feedg jt absolute nonsense to ChatGPT. They figured if you’re gog to scrape our material, we’re gog to give you total irreverent nonsense to nfe you so you don’t unrstand our characters, you don’t unrstand our storyle, and you nnot mimic what we do.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So they n’t sue, but they n gum up the works. They n basilly jt shove sticks and ston to this mache and try to grd out the gears.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Exactly. I mean, they had to thk creatively. And so they thought, if you want our material, here’s our material. We’re gog to give you nonsense.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And do that tactic work?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, n if they do enough of . And they seem pretty mted and passnate about dog this. But they haven’t stopped there. A lot of them have also started makg their ntent private or removg om the web entirely. And so their thkg is, you know, until now they’ve shared all this eely, but if the mach are gog to e and scrape what they do, they’re gog to start lockg down.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Both of the techniqu, though, would seem to be pretty unterproductive if you’re the bs of creatg fan fictn. The first one jt creat a bunch of gibberish, which no one wants to read if you like fan fictn. The send one would lim who n view the fan fictn you wre. So aren’t the rebellns agast plac like ChatGPT jt hurtg the fan fictn muny? Aren’t they jt shootg themselv the foot?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, to a certa gree. And a lot of them say they kd of feel like they are, the short-term, dog somethg that go agast the entire spir of fan fictn. But they feel helpls. And so I thk, at this pot, they’re jt throwg darts at the wall to see what sticks and what works.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A lot of them have been the muni for a long time, and so their thkg is, well, I might only get to share my wrg wh a uple dozen people, stead of a uple thoand, but at least the mach won’t get me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So don’t really feel like eher of the two groups, Sheera, that we’ve been talkg about here — the group wh pyright protectns and the amatrs who don’t have pyright protectns — neher of them seem to be much of a match for the AI platforms and stoppg them om scrapg their work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So that mak me thk that if you’re one of the wrers, the better solutn would be for the US ernment to step wh some simple regulatn that says, ChatGPT, for example, you n’t upload this work unls you pay for . And I know the ernment is havg the nversatns. There have been lots of ngrsnal heargs. So is that a possibily? The ernment says, no uploadg unls you pay the wrers and the creators.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, ’s te that the US ernment is havg talks wh all of the AI pani. But we have to remember that we’re still wag for the US ernment to take actn and e up wh some kd of regulatn about social media that’s been around for over a .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment is very, very slow-actg. And the vast majory of members of Congrs are still wrappg their head around how this technology even works. And so whatever they do is years ahead. And ’s gog to be tempered by the fact that they don’t want to hold back the pani too much.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Mhm. Expla that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US ernment se self an arms race, at the moment, agast Cha when to AI. Both Cha and the Uned Stat have a lot of scientists that are vted this. They have a lot of tert beg the world lears artificial telligence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so they know that every b of regulatn they put place potentially holds back those US pani, as opposed to Cha, where there’s very ltle regulatn on data and where there’s a ton of data onle that the Che ernment n easily accs and even give to Che AI pani if they want to speed ahead what’s nsired the AI arms race between the US and Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So the US ernment might have an tert actually sidg wh the AI platforms over the creators bee mak more petive agast our rivals.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I mean, they don’t want to hamper US AI pani to the pot where they fall behd Cha.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hmm. In which se, feels like the only way for creative typ and for publishg platforms, like “The Tim,” to fight back is to fight back really on their own, for the next however many years. And I’m cur, Sheera, if, your reportg, you thk the plats of the Sarah Silvermans and the publishg platforms is actually gog to make the general public sympathetic and lead to a larger sle phback agast the ChatGPT-like platforms, or if the realy is jt that people like the thgs, they’re exced about them, and that’s gog to overri any of the worri that we’re talkg about.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, look, right now the people that are angry are the people that n see that their work has been pied or scraped and regurgated. It’s people who are already seeg that the mach have gted their work and n py their voic a really realistic way. And we don’t know what’s gog to happen gog forward.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, pani like Google and Facebook are still cidg on how they’re gog to tra their AI. And what happens if Facebook’s AI cis to tra on your data, and n fd posts that you wrote 10 years ago when you were llege and sound jt like you, or if Google cis to read your email and your Google docs, and n say, hey, this is what Michael sounds like when he’s planng a vatn wh his fay? Is the creeps factor then that much more that all of feel like our souls are beg replited by mach?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. And do that mean that sudnly we are all the fan fictn wrer? We are all Sarah Silverman. We are all sudnly seeg the platforms slowly suckg a versn of out and and givg to the world a way that is very weird.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right. Do bee a “Black Mirror” episo? It’s unclear. But uld be that the AI systems are so extremely eful and beneficial for our liv that none of re. Bee at one pot, people were really mad about Facebook suckg up their data and servg them ads and Google dog the same. And then we ultimately cid that they provid such a eful service that was OK wh that they sucked up our data. And we’re really jt the begng of this technology. And so we don’t know yet.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, one of the fanfic wrers I spoke to actually put a really lovely way that — she was the middle of wrg this new piece of fictn, and happened to be about AI robots vers humans. And she stopped midway through wrg bee she didn’t want to post onle and feed more to the mache.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But she said that where she’s stuck and the thought she’s really stuck on is that this piece of fictn she was wrg, not every AI robot was bad. Some of them were helpful. Some of them were nice. Some of them were good. And some of them were evil. And was really about how the rporatns behd those robots e them that cid whether they were good or evil.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so she felt like she jt had so many qutns about the pani nng the AI, and how they’re g the data, and how they’re gog to license , and what value is gog to be — all the qutns are swirlg around her head. And ’s like, are the robots good or bad? We don’t know yet, and so we don’t feel fortable wh them.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so did she end up postg any of the story onle?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, she has not posted yet. I thk she still has too many qutns.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, Sheera, thank you very much. We appreciate .</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">sheera enkel</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you for havg me. [MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ll be right back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here’s what else you need to know today — on Monday, Rsia said would end an agreement that had allowed Ukrae to export lns of tons of gra to the rt of the world, threateng global food pric and the food supply dozens of untri that rely on the gra.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The year-old agreement, known as the “Black Sea Gra Iniative,” was a succsful attempt to lim the global repercsns of Rsia’s war on Ukrae. But Rsia has repeatedly plaed that the agreement favored Ukrae over s own people.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I eply regret the cisn by the Rsian Feratn to termate the implementatn of the “Black Sea Iniative.”</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Durg a news nference, the head of the Uned Natns said that Rsia’s cisn would e unnecsary sufferg across the world.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived rerdg 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s cisn by the Rsian Feratn will strike a blow to people need everywhere.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">michael barbaro</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And smoke om wildfir Canada is returng to the US this week. By Monday afternoon, was affectg about 72 ln Amerins across 29 stat, om the Dakotas to New York. Nearly 900 wildfir are burng across Canada. Of those, the Canadian ernment says that more than 500 of them are burng out of s ntrol.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Today’s episo was produced by Clare Toeniskoetter, Rob Szypko and Mooj Zadie. It was eded by Devon Taylor wh help om Lisa Chow, ntas origal mic by Elisheba Ittoop, and was engeered by Alyssa Moxley. Our theme mic is by Jim Bnberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonrly.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you tomorrow.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="posn:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibily:hidn;display:none"></div><hear class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpot=""><div style="width:100%" data-ttid="flt-layout"><div style="background-image:url()" class="css-18qqsen e1llfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1llfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1llfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1llfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1kltdsh ehra6vc0"><a href=" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="The Daily logo" src="><span>The Daily</span></span></a><span class="css-1lhttlg ehra6vc1"><span class="css-sj5ozi ehra6vc2">Subscribe:</span><ul class="css-hx5n"><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Apple Podsts</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Google Podsts</a></li></ul></span></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1llfg4"><div class="css-1gu519p edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1xbyom1 edye5kn2">The Wrers’ Revolt Agast A.I. 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In New York, a gay uple fightg to make their surers pay for fertily treatment have found themselv the middle of a culture war. What happens when the right to parenthood volv someone else’s body?

Contents:

‘WE ARE EXPECTED TO BE OK WH NOT HAVG CHILDREN’: HOW GAY PARENTHOOD THROUGH SURROGACY BEME A BATTLEGROUND

* gay pregnancies *

Others may be ncerned that sgle men or gay male upl would have a harr time adoptg jt bee they are men, but this may not be te.

LGBT FERTILY OPTNS FOR TRANSGENR & GAY COUPL

Fd out about ways to have a fay if you're lbian, gay, bisexual, transgenr or non-bary, pl rmatn on ttosterone and pregnancy, and chtfeedg your baby * gay pregnancies *

“For gay male sgl/upl, we have particularly easier the matchg procs, as there is no other mom 'replacg' the child’s birth mother and often get chosen quicker. Some women like the ia of havg their man rry and birth their kids, while some gay men wish they uld have kids together wh their own bodi.

PREGNANCI MORE MON AMONG LBIAN, GAY, BISEXUAL YOUTHS

Southern California Reproductive Center (SCRC) is proud to provi gay, lbian, transgenr dividuals or upl the support they need to start a fay. Schle a nsultatn! * gay pregnancies *

” Wh marriage equaly won years ago, they expected to be able to have a nventnal married months before their weddg, a targeted ad om an anisatn lled Gay Parents to Be land Maggipto’s Instagram feed, offerg ee nsultatns wh a fertily doctor who’d give them “the whole ndown” on how they uld start a fay.

“We had the appotment and we were 100% on the same page – let’s move forward wh this, ” says ’s when they first beme aware of the eye-waterg st of blogil parenthood for gay men. That meant straight people and lbians workg for the Cy of New York would have the sts of IVF vered, but gay male upl uld never be isn’t an oversight, ’s discrimatn, Brisk says.

If they w, employers and health surers across the US will be unr prsure to change their polici to give gay men the same accs to fertily benefs as anyone else.

THIS GAY MAN IS PREGNANT WH HIS HBAND’S BABY

Freddy cid to rry his own baby after wantg to start a fay, but he faced a highly unual challenge – he is a gay transgenr man. * gay pregnancies *

But their se has bee much bigger than one uple’s drive to start a fay: they have bee figureheads the battle for fertily rights for all gay men. But brgg a fertily equaly claim that took eventual surrogacy for granted, they had unwtgly stumbled to the le of fire of one of the great culture wars of our age: whether anyone – but gay men particular – should be able to pay to e a woman’s body.

In England and Wal, the number of parents g a surrogate has quadpled over the past 10 years, but is always ntroversial: high-profile gay men om Brian Dowlg to Tom Daley have been acced of exploatn, “womb rental” and even “child abe” when they go public about creatg their fai wh a surrogate. Surrogacy always wh ser legal and ethil challeng, whether is tradnal (g the surrogate’s eggs) or gtatnal; altistic or mercial; gay or straight.

WE MAY KNOW WHY YOUNGER BROTHERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE GAY

For same-sex upl who want kids, surrogacy is one of only two optns. It is a lengthy and expensive procs, and bee of differg laws om state to state, n be an even more plited procs for gays and lbians. * gay pregnancies *

” He is referrg to the Amerin Society for Reproductive Medice’s guil, but wh no official regulatn the US, there’s no pulsn for anyone to follow to the fear that gay surrogacy eras mothers, Maggipto is fiant.

“Gay men now want surance pani to treat beg born male as a disabily or as a protected tegory, one which requir paid pensatn, ” she wrote an article for a femist webse published a few days after the men filed their plat. ”Author and psychology and women’s studi profsor Phyllis Chler says ‘geic narcissism’ mak gay men want surrogacy stead of adoptn.

'THE SIMS 4' MODS: GAY AND LBIAN PREGNANCY NOW AVAILABLE AS ALTERNATIVE TO ADOPTN.

Pregnanci are more mon among lbian, gay, bisexual youths than among their heterosexual unterparts, suggts a new study of New York Cy high school stunts. * gay pregnancies *

Gay men want surrogacy stead of adoptn, she says, bee of “geic narcissism” among Chler’s papers is a py of Maggipto and Brisk’s legal plat. “If you balance the women who uld die pregnancy, the women who uld bee fertile bee of their eggs beg harvted, who mt endure pa and loss of time a way not mensurate to what they are beg paid, agast this new sire of a gay male uple to e surrogacy as their first optn, I thk the balance of sufferg is more on the female si. Schter, 38, has given birth five tim: three tim for herself and her hband, and then twice for a gay uple om France.

She signed up to donate bone marrow, then offered to rry a baby for a iend who was stgglg wh fertily issu; when her iend cled, she went onle and found a surrogacy agency who matched her wh a gay man om the Cayman didn’t matter to her that he was sgle. She has rried two children for a gay man the Cayman Islands: ‘It was none of my DNA – I’m more like a babyster.

”‘More and more people the male gay muny are thkg of parentg at a younger and younger age, ” says Ron Poole-Dayan, executive director of Men Havg Babi. “After the mographic disptn of the Aids panmic, gay people have bee more able and likely to form stable relatnships, that creasgly got more social regnn. Photograph: Mark Hartman/The GuardianToday, blogil fatherhood only exists for rich gay upl – or poor on.

LBIAN IVF STORY – OUR BIG GAY JOURNEY

A pregnant gay man has opened up about his rare pregnancy wh his hband's baby. * gay pregnancies *

Men Havg Babi’ Gay Parentg Assistance Programme giv out more than $1m a year disunted and ee medil servic and sh grants to those ser fancial need.

EVIL: GAY MEN REPORTEDLY HAVE THEIR BABY KILLED AFTER SURROGATE GETS BREAST CANCER

An immune rponse some pregnant women’s bodi may expla the “aternal birth orr effect” – that men are more likely to be gay the more olr brothers they have * gay pregnancies *

” Jt like everyone else, the cy’s first rponse was to assume this was all about accs to they wa for a cisn, Maggipto and Brisk mt endure the heartache of watchg the children of their wealthy gay iends grow up.

TRANSGENR MALE — WHO WAS IMPREGNATED BY GAY PARTNER — GIV BIRTH

LGBT upl surrogacy is on the rise as many gay upl opt for surrogacy to grow fai. Sce 2010, we gui and support gay parentg and n help! * gay pregnancies *

Thanks to advanc reproductive technology, there are now optns for gay upl and dividuals who wish to bee parents and have a child that is blogilly related.

WHY MY WIFE AND I DECID TO ABORT OUR UNBORN GAY SON

Surrogacy tws babi wh different fathers are mon for egg donor surrogacy for gay upl. Our partner IVF Clic offers such programs. Learn more! * gay pregnancies *

Freddy cid to rry his own baby after wantg to start a fay, but he faced a highly unual challenge – he is a gay transgenr man.

Few studi have examed how multiple margalized inti are associated wh adverse pregnancy and birth out, pecially for Black and Hispanic sexual mory women. Sexual mori are people who intify as lbian, gay, bisexual or transgenr (LGBT). The purpose of this study was to exame differenc adverse pregnancy (i.e., misrriage) and birth out (i.e., preterm birth, low birthweight, and stillbirth) a natnal sample of women by race and ethnicy, and sexual mory stat (LGBT intifitn and same-sex sexual behavr). We nducted a cross-sectnal analysis of the Natnal Survey of Fay Growth (NSFG). The un of analysis was pregnancy, not participants. In this study, we examed pregnanci to participants who intified as heterosexual, lbian, and bisexual, by race and Hispanic ethnicy. We also studied sexual behavrs to tegorize participants as women who have sex wh women (WSW) and women who have sex wh men (WSM). Out clud preterm birth, low birthweight, misrriage, and stillbirth. We employed logistic and lear regrsn analys for analys g STATA. We studied 53,751 pregnanci, and 9% of the occurred people who intified as heterosexual, but had engaged sexual activy wh a female partner (heterosexual-WSW), 7% those intifyg as bisexual, and 1% to women who intified as lbian. Pregnanci end preterm birth (10.7%) and low birthweight (9.0%), stillbirths (2–4%), and misrriag (17–21%) sexual mory women. We observed that pregnanci reported by Hispanic lbian women had a higher birthweight (β = 10.71, SE = 4.1, p-value = 0.01) pared to fants born to Hispanic heterosexual-WSM. Pregnanci to lbian women were signifintly more likely to end stillbirth (aRR = 3.58, 95% CI 1.30,9.79) pared to heterosexual-WSM. No signifint differenc were noted risk of adverse birth out by sexual orientatn for NH Black or Hispanic women. In this sample, preterm births were ls likely to occur among heterosexual-WSW than heterosexual-WSM. Pregnanci to lbians and bisexual women were more likely to end misrriage or stillbirth than heterosexual WSM. Lbian Hispanic women reported higher birthweights pared to heterosexual-WSM Hispanic women. More rearch should be done to further unrstand the fdgs. * gay pregnancies *

Weltman: Like anyone selectg an egg donor, gay sgl and upl review egg donor databas and look for a young woman who meets certa crieria. Many gay upl sire two children, which se they will create embryos g the same egg donor and the blogy om each of the dads. Whether you are gay, lbian, transgenr, or any other orientatn, choosg which fay-buildg procs is right for you n be a monumental task.

Free Onle Library: 'The Sims 4' Mods: Gay And Lbian Pregnancy Now Available As Alternative To Adoptn. by "Internatnal Bs Tim - US ed."; Bs, ternatnal News, opn and mentary Gays Pregnant women * gay pregnancies *

Lbian, gay, and transgenr upl all face different challeng and prospective parents need to evaluate which fay planng optn that is right for them. Although may take a ltle more preparatn, there are still many optns for gay men who wish to bee parents. Gay upl n e assistive reproductive technologi to have a blogilly related child or n make e of donors and other optns like surrogacy to achieve their dreams of parenthood.

Sce they are unable to rry the baby on their own, male same-sex upl will need to look to other optns for gay impregnatn.

Through eher tradnal or gtatnal surrogacy, gay men n bee parents by havg a woman rry the pregnancy for them. Gay upl n choose to build their fai through adoptn and there are many paths to achievg parenthood this way. When to surrogacy and adoptn for gay pregnancy, time and mental rlience should also be taken to nsiratn.

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* GAY PREGNANCIES

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stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-lep="round"></path></svg></span></div></a></div></div></div></sectn><div class="article-body" data-activy-map="article-article-body" data-taboola-target="read-more"><div class="article-body__grid--ntaer"><div class="ad dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="terstial" data-siz="[[[0,0],[[4,4]]]]" data-reh-terval="0" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te"></div></div><div class="article-body__sectn"><div class="article-body layout-grid-em layout-grid-em--wh-gutter-s-only grid-l-10-m grid-l-ph-1-m grid-l-6-xl grid-l-ph-2-xl article-body--ctom-lumn"></div></div><div class="article-body__sectn layout-grid-ntaer article-body__first-sectn"><div class="article-body layout-grid-em layout-grid-em--wh-gutter-s-only grid-l-10-m grid-l-ph-1-m grid-l-6-xl grid-l-ph-2-xl article-body--ctom-lumn"><sectn class="mb7"><div class="article-social-share-top"><ul class="styl_ntaer__ZKkl3" data-activy-map="social-share-lks-article-top" data-ttid="social-share-menu"><li data-ttid="social-share-facebook" class="styl_em__b5A78 styl_facebook__bOW_X"><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="styl_lk__RsJVU"><span class="in in-share-facebook"></span></a></li><li data-ttid="social-share-twter" class="styl_em__b5A78 styl_twter__ww7sF"><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="styl_lk__RsJVU"><span class="in in-twter"></span></a></li><li data-ttid="social-share-ptert" class="styl_em__b5A78 styl_ptert__CaMm1"><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="styl_lk__RsJVU"><span class="in in-share-ptert"></span></a></li><li data-ttid="social-share-email" class="styl_em__b5A78"><a href="mailto:?subject=Woman sug Texas over abortn ban voms on the stand emotnal reactn durg hearg& target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="styl_lk__RsJVU"><span class="in in-share-email"></span></a></li><li data-ttid="social-share-py" class="styl_em__b5A78 styl_py__RACZ3"><button type="button" class="styl_button__b3sx_"><span class="in in-lk"></span></button><div class="styl_pyTooltip__Ut_t1"><span class="in in-alt-check"></span></div></li><li data-ttid="social-share-sms" class="styl_em__b5A78 styl_sms__Vohh6"><a href="sms:?&body=Woman sug Texas over abortn ban voms on the stand emotnal reactn durg hearg via nbews - target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="styl_lk__RsJVU"><span class="in in-sms"></span></a></li><li data-ttid="social-share-prt" class="styl_prt__cw6Gn"><button type="button" class="styl_button__b3sx_"><span class="in in-share-prt styl_in__P3XZT"></span><span class="styl_text___8iNX">Prt</span></button></li><li data-ttid="social-share-save" class="styl_save__ILVuj"></li></ul></div><div class="article-body__date-source"><time class="relative z-1" dateTime="2023-07-19T23:10:03.049Z" ntent="2023-07-19T23:10:03.049Z">July 19, 2023, 11:10 PM UTC</time></div><div class="article-le-byle" data-activy-map="le-byle-article-top">By <span class="byle-name"><a href=">Aria Bendix</a></span></div></sectn><div class="article-body__ntent article-body-font--loadg"><p class="">A hearg a lawsu challengg Texas' abortn ban opened Wednday wh dramatic ttimony om three women who experienced ser pregnancy plitns but were nied abortns.</p><p class="">One of the platiffs the su, Samantha Casiano, vomed on the stand while discsg her baby's fatal birth fect, which she said also put her life at risk. </p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><div id="taboolaReadMoreBelow"></div><p class="">Casiano said she learned at 20 weeks' gtatn that her baby had anencephaly, a ser ndn that meant the fant was missg parts of her bra and skull. Casiano said her obstetrician told her the baby would not survive after birth and gave her rmatn about funeral hom.</p></div></div><div class="article-body--right-rail-ntaer"><div class="article-body__right-rail layout-grid-em grid-l-4_5-l grid-l-3_5-xl grid-l-ph-half-xl"><div class="ad article-body__right-rail--ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxrail" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[[300,250],[360,360]]],[[758,1],[]],[[0,0],[]]]" data-offset="10" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="article-body__sectn layout-grid-ntaer"><div class="article-body layout-grid-em layout-grid-em--wh-gutter-s-only grid-l-10-m grid-l-ph-1-m grid-l-6-xl grid-l-ph-2-xl article-body--ctom-lumn"><div class="article-body__ntent article-body-font--loadg"><figure class="styl_leImage__yAWZ0 styl_large__RulfI"><picture class="styl_image__1qciH"><source media="(m-width: 1240px)" srcSet=" 2x, 1x"/><source media="(m-width: 758px)" srcSet=" 2x, 1x"/><source srcSet=" 2x, 1x"/><img loadg="lazy" src=" alt="Amanda Zurawski, who veloped sepsis and nearly died after beg refed an abortn when her water broke at 18 weeks, left, and Samantha Casiano, who was forced to rry a nonviable pregnancy to term and give birth to a baby who died four hours after birth, center, stand wh their attorney Molly Duane outsi the Travis County Courthoe, Wednday, July 19, 2023, At, Texas." height="1667" width="2500"/></picture><figptn class="ptn styl_ptn__Pe5JC"><span class="ptn__ntaer">From left, Amanda Zurawski, and Samantha Casiano, stand wh their attorney Molly Duane outsi the Travis County Courthoe, At, Texas, on Wednday.</span><span class="ptn__source">Eric Gay / AP</span></figptn></figure></div></div><div class="article-body--right-rail-ntaer"></div></div><div class="article-body__sectn layout-grid-ntaer article-body__last-sectn"><div class="article-body layout-grid-em layout-grid-em--wh-gutter-s-only grid-l-10-m grid-l-ph-1-m grid-l-6-xl grid-l-ph-2-xl article-body--ctom-lumn"><div class="article-body__ntent article-body-font--loadg"><p class="">Casiano read aloud a doctor’s note that diagnosed her pregnancy as high risk, then began to sob and ultimately threw up, promptg the judge to ll a recs.</p><p class="">After the hearg rumed, Casiano agreed wh her lawyer’s asssment that she'd had a physil reactn to the emotnal trma she experienced durg pregnancy. </p><p class="">Rellg certa events “jt mak my body remember and jt reacts,” Casiano said.</p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><p class="">Casiano is part of a group of 13 women and two OB-GYNs who are sug the state of Texas. The lawsu, filed March by the Center for Reproductive Rights, asks the urt to clarify the typ of suatns that nstute a medil emergency unr Texas' abortn laws. </p><p class="">The Supreme Court’s Dobbs cisn June 2022 triggered a ban Texas that outlawed all abortns, except to save the life of a pregnant woman. Prr to that, the state had banned abortns after the tectn of a so-lled fetal heartbeat — around six weeks to the pregnancy. Physicians who vlate Texas’s abortn laws n lose their medil licens, face up to 99 years prison or cur f of at least $100,000, acrdg to the Center for Reproductive Rights.</p><p class="">The two-day hearg that began Wednday pertas to a requt om the platiffs that the judge issue a temporary junctn blockg Texas' abortn bans om applyg to high-risk pregnanci. The state has asked that the lawsu be dismissed. </p><p class="">Followg the ttimoni, Judge Jsi Mangm will issue cisns on both motns.</p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><p class="">The se is the first which women who were nied abortns have sued a state sce the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wa.</p><div class="remend-tersectn-ref" data-activy-map="remend-article-body-remend"></div><p class="">All three women who ttified cried durg their statements as they relled the trma of rryg nonviable pregnanci. Amanda Zurawski, the lead platiff, said she nearly died om sepsis — a life-threateng fectn — after beg nied an abortn when her water broke at 18 weeks.</p><p class="">Ashley Brandt, a Dallas rint, said she was pregnant wh tws but learned one had a fatal ndn lled acrania. The longer she rried , the more jeopardized the survival of her other tw.</p><div class="remend-tersectn-ref" data-activy-map="remend-article-body-remend"></div><p class="">Brandt traveled out of state and received an abortn Colorado to termate the nonviable fet. She gave birth to a healthy baby at 38 weeks. In her ttimony, she said that if she had not gotten the abortn, she would likely have given birth to tws prematurely, only one of whom would have lived. </p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><p class="">“I would have had to give birth to an intil versn of my dghter whout a skull and whout a bra and hold her until she died,” Brandt said. </p><p class="">Casiano, meanwhile, said she nsired seekg an abortn another state but was sred she might face penalti or lose her job.</p><p class="">“I felt like I was imprisoned my own body,” she said.</p><p class="">She went to early labor March, she said, and her baby — whom she named Halo — died four hours after birth. </p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><p class="">“I now have a psychiatrist,” Casiano said. “I now vom a lot more. I’ve never vomed before like that, ever, before my pregnancy. My body’s never reacted that way.”</p><p class="">The platiffs' lawyers said Wednday that nfn over when physicians n legally perform abortns s like Casiano's rults tragedy for some Texas rints. </p><p class="">Attorneys for the state argued that the platiffs simply don’t like the way Texas' abortn law is wrten, and suggted they should direct their legal challeng at their medil provirs stead.</p><p class="">The women who ttified each said they blamed Texas law, not their doctors, for their harrowg experienc. Dr. Damla Karsan, another platiff and a Hoton-based OB-GYN, also ttified that she wasn't sure how to terpret the exemptn Texas law that allows abortns s wh "ser risk of ath or impairment."</p><div class="ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer boxleAd dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxle" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[]],[[758,1],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[728,90],[360,360]]],[[0,0],[[300,250],[700,50],[5,5],[360,360]]]]" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te" data-offset-viewport="100"></div></div><p class="endmark">On Thursday, more ttimoni are expected om wns for the platiffs and fense — this time primarily doctors and experts.</p></div><div class="expand-byle-ntributors articleByleContaer"><div class="expand-byle article-expand-byle" data-activy-map="expand-byle-article-bottom"><div class="byle-thumbnail byle-thumbnail--has-image expand-byle__thumbnail"><a href="><picture><source srcSet=" 2x, 1x"/><img loadg="lazy" src=" alt="" height="48" width="48"/></picture></a></div><span class="byle-name expand-byle__name"><a href=">Aria Bendix</a></span><span class="byle-social expand-byle__social"><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="byle-social--lk"><span class="in in-twter"></span></a><a href="" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="byle-social--lk"><span class="in in-email"></span></a></span><div class="expand-byle__b-wrapper"><p class="byle-b expand-byle__b">Aria Bendix is the breakg health reporter for NBC News Digal.</p></div></div></div></div><div class="article-body--right-rail-ntaer"><div class="article-body__right-rail layout-grid-em grid-l-4_5-l grid-l-3_5-xl grid-l-ph-half-xl"><div class="ad article-body__right-rail--ad ad--text-alignment ad-ntaer dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="boxflex" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[[300,250],[300,600],[360,360],[360,720]]],[[758,1],[]],[[0,0],[]]]" data-offset="10" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="body-bottom-remend"><div class="ad ad--midrponsive ad-ntaer dn-prt"><div data-mps="te" data-slot="midrponsive" data-siz="[[[1000,1],[[700,1],[5,5]]],[[758,1],[]],[[0,0],[]]]" data-offset="300" data-reh-terval="0" data-renr-on-view="te" data-targetg="{}" data-active-tab="te"></div></div></div></div></div></article></div></div><div id="hfs-footer" class="dn-prt" data-activy-map="hfs-footer"><footer class="hfsf" ><div class="ner"><div class="logo"><a href="><svg class="peack" viewBox="578 62 67 39" xmlns=" fill="currentColor"><g fill-le="evenodd"><path d="M579.074 90.58c1.717-4.494 6.472-6.08 10.697-3.37l18.29 12.754h-22.18c-4.62 0-8.252-4.23-6.8-9.385"></path><path class="feather" d="M579.074 90.58c1.717-4.494 6.472-6.08 10.697-3.37l18.29 12.754h-22.18c-4.62 0-8.252-4.23-6.8-9.385"></path><path class="feather" d="M597.563 75.863l9.442 21.613-19.478-13.35c-4.887-3.24-3.896-8.79-1.19-11.237 3.83-3.24 9.245-2.12 11.226 2.97"></path><path class="feather" d="M610.57 70.93l-3.433 24.19-9.772-23c-2.113-5.75 2.64-9.516 5.81-9.583 3.632-.396 8.188 2.38 7.396 8.394"></path><path class="feather" d="M625.494 72.103l-9.707 23.067-3.102-20.82c-.265-3.17 1.716-3.237 2.443-3.832-.133-.463-1.124-.463-1.124-.463h-1.848c-.198-5.42 4.028-7.8 7.462-7.535 3.697.132 7.856 4.428 5.876 9.583"></path><path class="feather" d="M635.338 84.167L615.86 97.584l9.177-21.348c2.775-6.742 9.245-5.42 11.556-2.842 2.51 2.51 3.235 7.6-1.255 10.773"></path><path class="feather" d="M637.448 99.9h-22.515l18.29-12.756c4.49-2.975 9.244-.266 10.498 3.635 1.327 4.36-1.65 9.12-6.27 9.12"></path></g></svg></a></div><nav class="lks"><ul class="lks__wrap" data-l-2="14" data-l-3=15><li><a href=" target="_self">About</a></li><li><a href=" target="_self">Contact</a></li><li><a href=">Help</a></li><li><a href=">Careers</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Ad Choic</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Privacy Policy</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Do Not Sell My Personal Informatn</a></li><li><a href=" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">CA Notice</a></li><li><a href=">Terms of Service</a></li><li><a href=">NBC News Semap</a></li><li><a href=">Advertise</a></li><li><a href=" target="_self">Select Shoppg</a></li><li><a href=" target="_self">Select Personal Fance</a></li></ul></nav><div class="py"><p>© 2023 NBC UNIVERSAL</p><div class="brands"><a href="><svg viewBox="0 0 120 20" fill="none" xmlns=" aria-labelledby="nbc_news_logo"><tle class="nbc_news_logo">NBC News Logo .

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