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In his first say llectn sce 'The Book of Delights,' Ross Gay explor how joy is more plited than we thk—and more attaable.

Contents:

ROSS GAY: INCG JOY

Gay's new say llectn looks beyond the miseri of our current era to envisn a more welg future. * ross gay inciting joy *

--Ross Gay.

Take ActnHear more om Ross Gay this terview, "We Belong to Each Other.

ROSS GAY

* ross gay inciting joy *

00) / Number of pag 256 / Publitn date October 25, 2022 / ISBN 9781643753041Boston Globe’s Bt Books of 2022Shelf Awarens's Bt Adult Books of ’s Favore Books of 2022One of the San Francis Chronicle’s Favore Books of 2022Bt dbooks of 2022, BookPageOrr: Bookshop / IndieBoundFrom the publisher: In the geoly wrten and timely piec, prize-wng poet and thor Ross Gay nsirs the joy we ce when we re for each other, pecially durg life’s evable hardships.

Ross Gay will break your heart. In that sneaky way Ross Gay has of lovgly disarmg you before gettg you to dwell rooms of your heart you’d left vant, Incg Joy  s tular emotn as a wdow to sorrow and rage, to gifts and loss, to the tricky bs of beg alive. Ewg, thor of Ghosts The Schoolyard, Electric Arch, and Marvel Comic’s Ironheart seri“In says that are lyril, pensive, and surprisg, poet Gay sheds light on all the plac joy n lurk […] Gay’s a remarkable wrer, and the llectn mak for a spellbdg medatn on the ways joy epens and grows the pany of grief, fear, and loss.

”— Publishers Weekly, bt book of 2022: nonfictn"Ross Gay is as sightful and lyril as an sayist as he is as a poet. ”— Chris Hedg, Pulzer Prize-wner and thor of War is Force that Giv Us Meang and Ameri: The Farewell Tour"Wrten over the urse of the panmic, Gay ponrs joy, fg ls as the absence of sorrow and rather as our rponse to .

ROSS GAY’S ‘INCG JOY’ IS A GIFT THAT’S MEANT TO BE SHARED

Gay discs his latt book of says wh Shondaland. * ross gay inciting joy *

"— USA Today“A gift that’s meant to be shared […] spir to look beyond the miseri of our era to envisn a more welg future, Gay…offer[s] a ncept of joy ak to what Audre Lor nceptualized her say ‘Us of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power. ”—Tricycle: The Buddhist Review // Review“What Gay livers is no small gift. ”—Washgton Inpennt Review of Books“Ross Gay follows The Book of Delights wh another dazzlg llectn of lyric says.

Gay exus a generosy of spir.

”— The Rump, November book club selectn“Stunng…Gay’s cursy is prent on every page and his precise yet playful prose sparkl…This ronant, vivid medatn shouldn’t be missed. ”— Publishers Weekly, starred review“Ross Gay's work throws off so much light, I've often wonred if was powered by a superr energy source.

ROSS GAY’S SECRETS FOR LIVG A MORE JOYFUL LIFE

”— John Freeman, founr of Freeman’s lerary magaze and edor of The Pengu Book of the Morn Amerin Short Story“In this masterful, raw, and stirrg llectn of says, Ross Gay has once aga axed his rears to awaken to our full humany. Ross Gay helps to unrstand that our joy and pa are fundamentally tangled up wh each other, and when we n ve sorrow close to share a proverbial cup of tea, that is when our ept joy is ced.

”— BookPage"Gay's poetilly fluenced prose is nothg short of joyful. Gay's pedagogy, explaed tail, dispts the systems that are basele ngent wh joy, as do his wrg, every sentence. ”— Poets & Wrers, ver feature“In a seri of says on such disparate them as skateboardg, grief, pickup basketball, ver songs, orchards, ath, and school, Gay expounds on his this, betifully stated the book’s troductn: joy, emergg om our shared human experience of sorrow, n provoke new solidari, leadg to love, to survival, to change that looks like shared flourishg.

”— Ploughshar"Gay is a treasure, and his latt offerg will light his fans as well as those new to his work. "— Kirk Reviews“Ross Gay has a sgle-md foc: makg the world a better place.

ROSS GAY’S ‘INCG JOY’ REIMAG HOW WE FD LIFE’S GREATT HAPPS

”— BookPage, Most Anticipated Books of the Fall“Ross Gay has bee a sort of pied piper for joy. He studi his own life, and betifully wr both of s plexy—how one mt wele sorrow to tly feel joy’s expansive width—and of s simplicy…”— BOMB Magaze“Gay profoundly monstrat that not only uld he wre about joy, perhaps we all should be thkg about , pursug , creatg , cg our liv.

Ross Gay on cg joy while dg wh sorrow.

ROSS GAY: INCG JOY (IN-PERSON)

In his latt llectn of says, Incg Joy, poet Ross Gay rensirs the breadth of joy, argug that n be found – and even strengthened – life's harst moments, when we mt rely on one another. This week, host Brtany Le ss down wh Gay to discs the plexy of joy, the bety of grace and creatg meang life.

I began readg “Incg Joy” a profound state of, I rpected s thor, Ross Gay, for the whimsy, disciple and fiance that produced his prr say and poetry llectns, “The Book of Delights” and “Catalog of Unabashed Gratu, ” which won a 2015 Natnal Book Crics Circle Award. Wh “Incg Joy, ” which spir to look beyond the miseri of our era to envisn a more welg future, Gay vlts over the possibily of treacle to offer a ncept of joy ak to what Audre Lor nceptualized her say “Us of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power, ” which she wrote, “The sharg of joy, whether physil, emotnal, psychic, or tellectual, forms a bridge between the sharers which n be the basis for unrstandg much of what is not shared between them, and lsens the threat of their difference.

Rather, as Gay wr, “What if joy is not only entangled wh pa, or sufferg, or sorrow, but is also what emerg om how we re for each other through those thgs? ”As direct as he n be when makg a pot he don’t want rears to miss, Gay prefers digrsns that are, and of themselv, dialectil enchantments.

INCG JOY WH ROSS GAY (TRANSCRIPT)

An cement is what Gay means to liver, and he do.

Whether wrg about droppg to a hang, durg which two iends give each other the kd of attentn that Simone Weil lled the purt of generosi, or about gam of pickup, or about the pernic racism that plagu our untry, or about the stultifyg stctur of higher tn, Gay prov that “real learng is unpredictable, improvisatory, and by fn, nfoundg. ”Gay’s radil openns to possibily leads to subtle discernments of his errors of judgment, such as dismissg the humany of his ad father to avoid the hurt of his own wound feelgs. ”Incg JoyEssaysBy Ross GayAlgonqu.

There’s an say Ross Gay’s new llectn, Incg Joy, that begs wh a discsn of his favore sports book, John Edgar Wiman’s Hoop Roots, a memoir told through the thor’s lifelong relatnship wh basketball. Over the next eleven pag, Gay, a longtime hoop lover himself, offers a medatn on the bety of the pickup game, and how a good urt is a microsm of mocracy. ”Gay, a 48-year-old poet and profsor at Indiana Universy, has ma a reer of explorg the wonr to be found our everyday liv, notably his btsellg 2019 say llectn, The Book of Delights.

ROSS GAY ON THE LABOR OF “INCG JOY”ROSS GAY ON THE LABOR OF “INCG JOY”

”Book ver of “Incg Joy” by Ross Gay.

*BEAR-MAGAZINE.COM* ROSS GAY INCITING JOY

Ross Gay’s ‘Incg Joy’ Reimag How We Fd Life’s Greatt Happs</tle><meta name="tle" ntent="Ross Gay’s ‘Incg Joy’ Reimag How We Fd Life’s Greatt Happs" /><meta name="scriptn" ntent="Gay discs his latt book of says wh Shondaland." /><meta name="keywords" ntent="books, cg joy, ross gay" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="webse" /><meta name="theme-lor" ntent="#000000" /><lk href="/_assets/sign-tokens/shondaland/static/imag/" rel="in" /><meta property="og:se_name" ntent="Shondaland" /><meta name="fb:app_id" ntent="1860347537614732" property="fb:app_id" /><meta name="article:publisher" ntent=" property="article:publisher" /><meta name="twter:se" ntent="@byshondaland" /><meta name="google-se-verifitn" ntent="sfu5mSXvL_LJ0UWJMOQBi6gAhtC3W7eoCJECFtoBQiw" /><meta property="og:tle" ntent="Ross Gay’s ‘Incg Joy’ Reimag How We Fd Life’s Greatt Happs" /><meta property="og:scriptn" ntent="Gay discs his latt book of says wh Shondaland." /><meta name="robots" ntent="max-image-preview:large,max-snippet:-1,max-vio-preview:30" /><lk rel="apple-touch-in" href="/_assets/sign-tokens/shondaland/static/imag/" /><meta property="og:image" ntent="" /><meta property="og:image:width" ntent="1200" /><meta property="og:image:height" ntent="600" /><meta name="thumbnail" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent="" /><meta name="" ntent=" /><meta name="twter:image" ntent="" /><meta ntent=" property="og:url" /><meta name="to-publish" ntent="timely" /><meta property="og:type" ntent="article" /><meta name="twter:rd" ntent="summary_large_image" /><meta name="article:opn" property="article:opn" /><meta ntent="Books" property="article:sectn" /><meta ntent="2022-10-28T11:00:38Z" property="article:modified_time" /><meta ntent="2022-10-28T11:00:00Z" property="article:published_time" /><meta name="sailth.excerpt" ntent="New York Tim bt-sellg thor and Natnal Book Award falist Ross Gay may never read this terview, and that’s totally fe. 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64rem){{font-size:3rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem){{font-size:3.25rem;le-height:1.1;}}</style><h1 class="css-okra4 exadjwu10"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span>Ross Gay’s ‘Incg Joy’ Reimag How We Fd Life’s Greatt Happs<span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h1><style data-emotn="css 1cgvs9y">{font-fay:GTWalsheim,Helveti,sans-serif;font-weight:normal;marg-bottom:0.625rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.0625rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.25rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.5rem;le-height:1.2;}} a{-webk-text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn:unrle;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:her;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;} a:hover{lor:#B20B16;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;}</style><div class="css-1cgvs9y exadjwu8"><p>Gay discs his latt book of says wh Shondaland.</p></div><style data-emotn="css 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e1c1bym14">Stt Nmyer</a></span><style data-emotn="css w0ebia">{display:le-block;text-transform:upperse;marg-left:0.625rem;}</style><time class="css-w0ebia exadjwu6">Published: Oct 28, 2022</time></addrs></div></div></div></hear><style data-emotn="css k008qs">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;}</style><div class="css-k008qs ewisyje0"><style data-emotn="css 7ce51e">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;posn:relative;}@media(max-width: 64rem){{max-width:lc(100vw - (1rem * 2));marg-left:1rem;marg-right:1rem;} .e152u5os0{width:100vw;marg-left:lc(-1 * 1rem);}}@media(m-width: 48rem) and (max-width: 61.25rem){{marg-left:to;marg-right:to;} .e152u5os0{width:100vw;marg-left:lc((100vw - (lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 2 * 1rem)) / -2);}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem) and (max-width: 90rem){{max-width:lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem);marg-left:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);paddg-left:1rem;paddg-right:1rem;} .e152u5os0{width:100vw;marg-left:lc(lc((100vw - 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61.25rem){{max-width:45.25rem;marg-left:to;marg-right:to;}}@media(m-width: 61.25rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 73.75rem) and (max-width: 100rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}}@media(m-width: 90rem){{paddg-left:0rem;paddg-right:0rem;}} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;}{clear:both;ntent:" ";display:block;font-size:0.7rem;le-height:1.5rem;height:0rem;visibily:hidn;}</style><div class="article-body-ntent article-body standard-body-ntent css-woto36 ewisyje7"><style data-emotn="css aeyldl">{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-size:1.1875rem;le-height:1.6;} strong{font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;font-weight:bold;} em{font-style:alic;font-fay:Charter,Geia,Tim,Serif;}</style><p data-no-id="0" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><em>New York Tim</em> bt-sellg thor and Natnal Book Award falist Ross Gay may never read this terview, and that’s totally fe. It’s jt not his style. While we’re entranced by our smartphon, scrollg away, he’s likely out nature garng, teachg, or gatherg not for his next say or poem. It’s not that he’s anti-technology. It jt don’t brg him joy the way a good walk wh a tsted iend might.</p><p data-no-id="1" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Gay’s latt book of says, <em>Incg Joy</em>, feels very much like the aforementned leisurely walk around the neighborhood wh a good iend. Poignant, sightful, and betifully wrten, the says range om dark and difficult topics (like the one about the thor’s dyg father) to the lightful and downright funny. It’s this variety and playfulns that make<em> Incg Joy</em> a salve to life’s disappotments.</p><p data-no-id="2" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0">Shondaland recently ught up wh Ross Gay to talk about his new book, the power and mystery of language, why we’ll likely never see him on social media, what do and do not brg him joy, and so much more.</p><style data-emotn="css 18pb4rg">{borr:0;borr-bottom:th solid black;marg:1.875rem 0;clear:both;}</style><hr data-no-id="3" class="css-18pb4rg et3p2gv0" /><p data-no-id="4" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SCOTT NEUMYER: You wrote a lot of this book durg the global panmic of the past few years. How have you been holdg up?</strong></p><p data-no-id="5" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>ROSS GAY: </strong>I thk I’m dog well. I thk, partly, I’m beg more acutely aware of how (and this book kd of gets to that and emerg om ) sort of beholn we are to one another. I’ve been tryg to pay more attentn to that for a while now, but the last b of time has ma me more acutely aware of how the midst of re I am. I’m feelg profound gratu and also profound love for, and sire to wns, the ways we look out for one another.</p><p data-no-id="6" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: I want to say thank you for wrg this book. I feel very strongly that I </strong><strong><em>need</em></strong><strong> this book my life right now, and I thk others will feel that way too, as many did about your prev book of says. When you set out to wre somethg like this, is that always the goal, to fd a way to make somethg that people feel like they </strong><strong><em>need</em></strong><strong> to have?</strong></p><p data-no-id="7" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>That’s a great qutn. I haven’t known the answer to that, but today jt popped my head. It’s that I feel like Toni Morrison. A while ago, she said somethg like she’s wrg the books that she wanted to have the world. I feel very strongly that this is a book that I really need to have the world. 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e6iqd2">Cred: Algonqu Books</span></figptn></div></div></div><p data-no-id="9" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: There are so many thgs that I want to explore about the book, but I want to first talk about your e of language. Obvly as a poet, you’re well versed g language very specifilly and effectively, but you start right om the tle self wh this book — </strong><strong><em>Incg Joy</em></strong><strong>. Tell me a ltle b about g that word “cg” specifilly.</strong></p><p data-no-id="10" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I was tryg to thk of a word that was provokg. It’s funny bee I had all the terrible tl. Some that were cent tl, and then some terrible tl. But then I felt like I was lost on the tle. I uldn’t que get . My edors and the publishers had some ias, and they were even worse than me [<em>lghs</em>]<em>.</em> And then, I was at a ltle shop Frenchtown, New Jersey, where I spent some time. And the woman named Meg, who ns a shop, I told her I was workg on somethg, and she jt gave me a notebook. And then, so boom — all the tl started g out. And I started to realize that there’s somethg about unrstandg joy, explorg joy, nsirg joy. But I wanted to be more, I don’t know, energetic a certa kd of way. And the word “provotn” felt good, but there was actually a book by someone kd of my realm who had that word their tle. So, I looked and saw that one of the synonyms for “provotn” is “cement,” and I love that word bee means what I mean to do, which is, a way, ll up the implitns of . I mean, that’s . Bee I do a way feel like this wns to and practice of our nnectg and nnectedns is a profound cement. And will rearrange the world.</p><p data-no-id="11" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: When most people thk of “cg” somethg, ’s often a negative sense. Incg a rt, for stance. But you e here by tellg people that they n (and should) make their own joy. In a way, ’s even more active than sayg “fdg joy.” It’s not a passive activy but rather an active one that kd of needs to be worked at. Was that subvertg of people’s notn of the word self part of the tentn as well? Almost like a slap the face sayg, “Wake up! Joy isn’t gog to jt e to you.”</strong></p><p data-no-id="12" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>Yeah, maybe, bee I do feel like the way that the verb “cg” joy works two ways: One is that kd of asks the qutn, “How do we ce joy?” But then the other mak a noun or an adjective, like joy is cg. And so I thk both of those maybe rensir the hallmarkg notn of joy that is somethg else, which is fe too, but I’m terted this other kd of joy that’s more like an unrstandg that our time here is brief. It’s an unrstandg that everythg we love will pass. There’s also a kd of tenrns and a kd of reachg that I thk [happens when] practicg beg that awarens or matag the kd of state of awarens like that, which is hard. I thk c a kd of behavr that we share.</p><p data-no-id="13" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: One of the thgs I love about the book as well is that ’s filled wh so much variety. There are says about the ep, heavy subjects like grief and ath and toxic masculy and palism. But then you also talk about lighter subjects like books, and lghter, and the art of “the hang” and jt hangg out. That balance the book mak me wonr if you have a full drawer of says that didn’t make the cut for this book, as you very liberately chose the piec to provi balance. Do you have enough says already wrten for a third llectn?</strong></p><p data-no-id="14" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I have the begngs. But I thk you’re right. There is a sort of balance the book. There’s a long say about grief and masculy, and there’s the say about my father dyg. Then there’s the say about skateboardg, and there’s an say about pickup basketball. There’s a quick one about dancg. So yeah, there’s absolutely a kd of balance that I was tryg to have the book.</p><div supprsHydratnWarng data-no-id="15" data-embed="pullquote" class="embed css-0 e9hzx6g0"><style data-emotn="css 1eiql25">{text-align:center;marg:0rem;paddg-top:0.9375rem;paddg-bottom:0.9375rem;}</style><blockquote class="css-1eiql25 e1pe3zr91"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><style data-emotn="css 1h5xk02">{font-fay:GTWalsheim,Helveti,sans-serif;font-size:1.625rem;font-weight:bold;le-height:1.2;marg:0rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.75rem;le-height:1.2;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{font-size:1.875rem;le-height:1.2;}} b, strong{font-fay:her;font-weight:bold;} em, i{font-fay:her;font-style:alic;}</style><blockquote class="css-1h5xk02 e1pe3zr90">Bee I do a way feel like this wns to and practice of our nnectg and nnectedns is a profound cement. And will rearrange the world.<br></blockquote><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></blockquote></div><p data-no-id="16" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: Obvly, your mastery of language is unniable, but the brevy and ttns of the says are also super-admirable. I have to assume that some of that om workg as a poet, right?</strong></p><p data-no-id="17" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>Totally. I spend time on sentenc, on the syntax, on the grammar, and on the dictn ways that I know other nonfictn or fictn wrers, for the most part, do not. I fd myself really gettg granular like that and takg a lot of pleasure . And some of my poet iends are also that way. They’re jt really tryg to drill down on the sound of a le. And sometim, for better or worse, I’ll read somethg that I’ve wrten, and I’m like, “That sounds betiful.” The sound of that has a meang.</p><p data-no-id="18" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: Which is sometim the mysticism of poetry, right? It don’t all have to make sense to people outsi of you.</strong></p><p data-no-id="19" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>Yeah, there’s a bodily sense that’s as important. It’s a feelg.</p><p data-no-id="20" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: Do that make wrg the says more challengg?</strong></p><p data-no-id="21" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I thk that’s a great qutn. It don’t feel more difficult, but feels like a different kd of mental/psychic/spirual thg bee, part, I don’t even know how to articulate this, and maybe I never will, and maybe that’s a good thg, but there’s somethg about poems that rema, to me, more fundamentally myster.</p><p data-no-id="22" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: So, there’s never that aha moment where you’re like, “Yep, this one’s an say!” or “Yeah, this one’s a poem.”</strong></p><p data-no-id="23" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I thk they e to me at first ually the form that they’re gog to be. It’s possible that thgs n emerge one way and then be like, “You know, you’ve actually got to move them to this other thg.” So, I don’t. I n’t say 100 percent of the time, but for the most part, I know what I’m gettg to.</p><p data-no-id="24" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: What do you fd the most joy the days?</strong></p><p data-no-id="25" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I’m teachg a great graduate class that’s ostensibly about rearch and archiv, and we’re readg really ol books. I love teachg, and ’s taken me a long time to figure out how to do , so I love . But we’re workg on a llaborative piece. We’re listeng to each other’s work. We’re not criqug each other. We’re jt listeng and beg cur and open. And aga, I’m jt like, “Man, people are both so brilliant and also so lovg settgs where we prepare the space for one another.” People are wonrful. And that’s the thg that I’m feelg really lucky about. That’s pretty magil.</p><p data-no-id="26" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: What type of activi do you fd least joyful?</strong></p><p data-no-id="27" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I don’t like evaluatg people. A lot of the thgs about my job are thgs that, if I did right, I would hate. So, I don’t gra people. I give everyone A’s jt bee there’s not another button. But when I had to gra people, I hated . All of those more mechanized thgs — anythg that turns to dron, actually — I really hate.</p><p data-no-id="28" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: You talk about this the book que a b, puttg the phone down, and you’re not on social media. Is there no joy to be pulled om social media? Do you not thk your rears would fd joy seeg you experiencg and enjoyg life as well?</strong></p><p data-no-id="29" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>Yeah, I thk they might get a ltle kick out of somethg, but beg on social media, I thk I would certaly have somethg cultivated me that I don’t know that I want cultivated me. But I thk as far as joy is ncerned, I thk they might be more cled or more likely to approach joy if they’re talkg takg a walk wh a iend.</p><p data-no-id="30" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: So, we’re never gonna see you on social media …</strong></p><p data-no-id="31" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>Oh, no. Oh, no [<em>lghs</em>].</p><p data-no-id="32" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>SN: That’s so tertg bee I do fd thgs joyful about , but I n also unrstand the reticence.</strong></p><p data-no-id="33" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong>RG: </strong>I also know that I’m distractible. I’m sceptible to that. I’m a regular person who wants to be liked and all that stuff. But I thk our sire to be liked, or approved, or given the thumbs-up, or whatever … I thk that is horrible for art. And that’s not at all to say that n’t be efully ployed. It’s all the other aspects, and actually nnects to what I thk about school. School is jt effectively an approval factory. You go to school not really to learn. You go to school to have the people charge approve of you and to advance you. And there’s all the ways our liv where that happens. And I thk ’s bad for our souls.</p><hr data-no-id="34" class="css-18pb4rg et3p2gv0" /><p data-no-id="35" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><em>Stt Nmyer is a wrer om central New Jersey whose work has been published by </em>The New York Tim<em>, </em>The Washgton Post<em>, </em>Rollg Stone<em>, </em>The Wall Street Journal<em>, ESPN, </em>GQ<em>, </em>Esquire<em>, </em>The Boston Globe<em>, </em>AARP<em>, </em>Para<em> magaze, and many more publitns. You n follow him on Instagram and Twter </em><a href=" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="@sttnmyer" class="body-lk css-5z6rvi et3p2gv0"><em><u>@sttnmyer</u></em></a>.</p><p data-no-id="36" class="css-aeyldl et3p2gv0"><strong><em>Get Shondaland directly your box</em>: </strong><style data-emotn="css 18o6lw4">{-webk-text-ratn:none;text-ratn:none;text-ratn-thickns:0.0625rem;text-ratn-lor:her;text-unrle-offset:0.25rem;lor:#fff;-webk-transn:all 0.3s ease--out;transn:all 0.3s ease--out;display:le-block;font-fay:GTWalsheim,Helveti,sans-serif;text-transform:upperse;width:to;paddg:0.6rem 0.7rem;background-lor:#B20B16;font-size:0.875rem;le-height:1;letter-spacg:0.05em;font-weight:bold;marg:0rem;}{lor:#fff;text-ratn-lor:borr-lk-body-hover;background-lor:#000000;}{outle-lor:body-cta-btn-lk-foc;}</style><a href=" target="_blank" data-vars-ga-outbound-lk=" data-vars-ga-ll-to-actn="SUBSCRIBE TODAY" rel="nofollow" data-vars-ga-ux-element="Hyperlk" class="body-btn-lk css-18o6lw4 et3p2gv0"><strong>SUBSCRIBE TODAY</strong></a></p></div></div><style data-emotn="css 6b9rfj">{display:block;-webk-flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-ms-flex-preferred-size:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);flex-basis:lc((100vw - lc(20.625rem * 2 - 1rem) - 1rem - 20.625rem) / 2);-webk-box-flex:0;-webk-flex-grow:0;-ms-flex-posive:0;flex-grow:0;-webk-flex-shrk:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrk:0;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="no-prt css-6b9rfj ewisyje1"><div><style data-emotn="css 1tuodqg">{width:330px;paddg-left:30px;}</style><div id="ad-article-rail-flt-wrapper" class="vertil-ad css-1tuodqg eqm02p30"><style data-emotn="css w0cuw4">{display:block;posn:-webk-sticky;posn:sticky;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:none;}}</style><div class="vertilAdSticky css-w0cuw4 eqm02p32"><style data-emotn="css 9fasmy">{m-height:523px;top:5rem;}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-flex-directn:lumn;-ms-flex-directn:lumn;flex-directn:lumn;-webk-box-pack:jtify;-webk-jtify-ntent:space-between;jtify-ntent:space-between;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{m-height:138px;}}@media(max-width: 61.25rem){{ntent:"";display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;borr-bottom:th solid #E8E8E8;}}</style><div class="standard-article-vertil-ad css-9fasmy eqm02p31"><style data-emotn="css 14b96eg">{m-width:18.75rem;text-align:center;}</style><div id="gpt-ad-vertil-top" class="ad-ntaer css-14b96eg e1hka4w80"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div data-teractive="WatchNext-1" class="css-0 e10xr3vp6"><style data-emotn="css 1pqv15d">{marg-bottom:1.875rem;marg-top:1.875rem;paddg:0 0.938rem;}@media(m-width: 40.625rem){{paddg:0 2.5rem;}}</style><div data-embed="watch-next" class="css-1pqv15d e10xr3vp5"><style data-emotn="css ttc84c">{text-align:center;marg:0 to;max-width:60rem;borr-top:thick solid black;}</style><div class="css-ttc84c e10xr3vp4"><style data-emotn="css 1sowyjy">{marg-bottom:1.25rem;}</style><div class="css-1sowyjy e10xr3vp3"><style data-emotn="css 15arjfd">{font-fay:GTWalsheim,Helveti,sans-serif;font-size:1.75rem;font-weight:bold;le-height:3rem;marg:0rem;marg-bottom:0.25rem;paddg-top:1rem;}@media(max-width: 48rem){{font-size:1.5rem;le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 48rem){{le-height:1.1;}}@media(m-width: 64rem){{le-height:1.1;}}</style><h6 class="css-15arjfd e10xr3vp2"><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p0"></span><span class="css-0 e10xr3vp1">Watch Next</span><span aria-hidn="te" class="css-0 eagam8p1"></span></h6><style data-emotn="css 8i43bq">{display:-webk-box;display:-webk-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webk-align-ems:center;-webk-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-ems:center;-webk-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webk-jtify-ntent:center;jtify-ntent:center;marg:0rem;font-weight:normal;m-height:to;font-fay:GTWalsheim,Helveti,sans-serif;font-size:1.125rem;le-height:1.4;}</style><h6 class="css-8i43bq e10xr3vp0"> </h6></div><style data-emotn="css 1ui7hop">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;--aspect-rat:56.25%;}</style><div class="__rp-ntaer css-1ui7hop e6l0f0"><style data-emotn="css 1yu8e3d">{marg-bottom:0.9375rem;width:100%;height:100%;} .__rp-ntaer{height:to;}</style><div data-embed="embed-vio" class="vio-player css-1yu8e3d e1ou1fny0"><style data-emotn="css 1uds6oo">{height:100%;width:100%;posn:relative;}</style><div class="css-1uds6oo e1f7ylgd6"><style data-emotn="css 1iiivv4">{background-lor:rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.4);borr:.1875rem solid whe;borr-radi:50%;lor:#fff;cursor:poter;height:3.75rem;left:50%;posn:absolute;top:50%;-webk-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-moz-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-ms-transform:translate(-50%,-50%);transform:translate(-50%,-50%);-webk-transn:all 0.4s;transn:all 0.4s;width:3.75rem;z-x:1;}.e1f7ylgd6:hover {background-lor:rgba(33, 150, 245, 0.8);lor:#ffffff;}@media(m-width: 48rem){{height:5.625rem;width:5.625rem;borr:.28125rem solid whe;}}</style><button aria-label="Play Vio" class="css-1iiivv4 e1f7ylgd1"><style data-emotn="css 1lhf7lq">{fill:#ffffff;height:1.4rem;vertil-align:middle;width:1.45rem;}@media(m-width: 48rem){{width:2.3125rem;height:3rem;}}</style><svg xmlns=" width="24" height="24" viewBox="0 0 24 24" style="fill: var(--primary, #000);" role="img" tle="Play" class="css-1lhf7lq e1f7ylgd2"><tle>play in .

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